Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#81

Post by scarface74 » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 4:44 PM UTC

praneshp wrote: post #80

scarface74 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not intellectually dishonest. Speeding is against the law. Do you speed? Have you ever downloaded a movie off of bit torrent? Do you think that Black people should have moved to the back of the bus in the 60s because it was the law? There were laws on the books in many southern states until recently making homosexual sex a sin. Should that law have been followed? There were laws against interracial marriage unti…

Sorry, the phrase risk/rewards was a trigger. I know acquaintances that drive in the carpool lane because they can afford to pay the fine if caught, and brag about it. You seemed to fall in that camp (vs thinking about higher level, heavily debated laws like the ones about homosexuality), but clearly that wasn't the case!

You never answered the question - do you ever go over the speed limit?

Would you speed if the penalty was $1000 a mile over?

What’s the moral difference?

And in either case there shouldn’t be anymore of “a debate” about how two grown people decide to have sex and who they should marry than whether a grown person should be allowed to drink.

That 18 year old college student who the government doesn’t deem to be mature enough to drink is mature enough to vote, fight in the military, sign for a student loan that can potentially put them in 10s of thousands worth of debt, etc.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#82

Post by asutekku » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 4:47 PM UTC

0x14c1de72 wrote: post #65

asutekku wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why they don’t ask you is you are (most likely) a westerner. In my experience if you are an underage looking japanese buying alcohol alone, they most likely will ask your age. And drunk driving in japan? It’s much more common than you would think.

When I was on exchange in Japan my underage friends from joined me multiple times for bars and not a single time was their ID's checked. I've only had my ID checked during some special event like Halloween in very central areas in Tokyo. In stores they will not even check ID's or ask your age verbally but you just tap a button that says you are old enough to buy alchohol.

That’s why i said if they are alone. No one ever get asked if they are with a western person.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#83

Post by titanix2 » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #38

ghaff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can reduce something without stopping it. I'm not advocating for the policy change that was made. But the evidence suggests it was at least somewhat effective in the goal of reducing teenage accidents in which elevated blood alcohol levels were involved. People can differ on whether that justified the policy change or not.

Can you imagine one case where an 18-21 year old was at a party where people were drinking and they said “I can’t have that beer because I’m underage”.

Totally happens yes. In my Japanese university club, the rule at drinking party was: minors can drink if they want but others should not incite them to drink if they don’t want to.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#84

Post by GolDDranks » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 5:02 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #19

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

I always find it baffling that the problem is drunk _driving_. Where I'm from (Northern Europe), the young people drank way too much at home parties but certainly did not drive under influence.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#85

Post by qntty » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 5:03 PM UTC

nkkollaw wrote: post #51

Where does the age 18 comes from? I see that it's the age of adulthood in most countries. Your brain and body stop developing at 23 if I'm not mistaken?

Presumably some sort of pragmatic balance between protecting children from child labor and war on the one hand, and having enough young people in the society to keep the economy going and military staffed.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#86

Post by AlanSE » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 5:04 PM UTC

asutekku wrote: post #42

AlanSE wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The drunk driving argument extends to Japan extremely poorly due to cultural and infrastructure differences. Public transportation in Japan is great. In urban areas it's also quite easy, accessible, and affordable to rent a capsule hotel "room" or net cafe seat. This is true no matter what your age or credit history, they won't ask for your drivers license, you can pay cash. It's honestly strange that I have to state…

The reason why they don’t ask you is you are (most likely) a westerner. In my experience if you are an underage looking japanese buying alcohol alone, they most likely will ask your age. And drunk driving in japan? It’s much more common than you would think.

oh sorry, I wasn't clear. I was talking about hotels asking for your ID. It is also true that Japan checks ID for alcohol less often (it would be hard to check more often than the U.S.), but that might just mean they're more comfortable going by looks / gut, and that carrying identification (when walking) doesn't have the same norms or laws either.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#87

Post by mistrial9 » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #19

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

The driver's age IMO relates to a time when more people were rural, and someone in the household HAD to drive. It is useful to have a young driver.

Regarding alcohol, it seems to be a tragedy of the West, whatever the age of consent. The long-term effects of daily alcohol were under-rated, in an age were many adults did hard physical labor many days, and life expectancy was lower.

joke: in Scotland, they swore that the Irish were the worst drunks; in Germany they swore that the Russians were the worst drunks; in Denmark, they swore that the Norwegians were the worst drunks; and you know what, they were all terrible drunks.

Some people said that the Italians and the Portugese give children wine at a feast, mixed with juice. This seems tragic in modern light.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#88

Post by MiddleEndian » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

laurieg wrote: post #22

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

I lived in a Japanese university dormitory for a year. Alcohol is absurdly easy for under 20's to purchase. There is essentially no checking of IDs in shops. Most shops have a touch screen point of sale system that will ask "Are you over 20?" if you buy an alcoholic product. Some of those systems only have the "Yes" answer button...

Sounds like a much better system than in the US where they send in cops who pretend to be 18-20 just to say "gotcha!" and fine restaurants.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#89

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

youngtaff wrote: post #58

gambiting wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, your own home is certainly one thing. But I'm pretty sure in the UK you can totally order alcohol for your own kid at a restaurant and it's not illegal as long as the parent gives permission. In some other places it's illegal for someone to sell alcohol knowing that it will be consumed by a minor - so that scenario couldn't happen.

In the UK 16+ year olds can have alcohol with a meal in a pub / restaurant etc. providing it's bought by someone over 18 https://www.gov.uk/alcohol-young-people-law

[deleted]

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#90

Post by ciceryadam » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #53

ghaff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

I really like how Germany solved the drinking age problem: you can drink beer and wine at 16 and hard liquor at 18. This gives you a safety net to experiment with alcohol. You won't drink yourself into a coma with beer and you aren't allowed to drive till you are 18.

"You won't drink yourself into a coma with beer" - it only takes more time. 1st google result on oktoberfest passed out: https://coed.com/2015/09/16/oktoberfest-best-drunk-photos-oc...