Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#31

Post by pygy_ » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

1) The younger you start consuming addictive substances, the more likely you are to become addicted.

2) Analysis and impulse control are not handled by the same parts of the brain, and those mature at a different pace.

3) Given how social ties are stratified in kids due to the education system, providing a buffer of a couple of years protects high school kids from expostion to addictive substances.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#32

Post by ekianjo » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:21 PM UTC

veridies wrote: post #20

ekianjo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, will have no effect in Japan since a large corpus of voters are senior citizens. In practice younger generations have no say in politics.

That’s no more true than that Asian-Americans have no say in politics. Demographic groups aren’t absolute voting blocks.

If the 18-20 yo population represents 2% of voters (just making it up) and 70% of them don't vote, you will understand their power is absolutely marginal.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#33

Post by ghaff » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:21 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #27

ghaff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Because making the legal drinking age 21 has stopped people between 18-21 from getting alcohol. See also the “War on Drugs”

You can reduce something without stopping it. I'm not advocating for the policy change that was made. But the evidence suggests it was at least somewhat effective in the goal of reducing teenage accidents in which elevated blood alcohol levels were involved. People can differ on whether that justified the policy change or not.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#34

Post by ekianjo » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:22 PM UTC

superbaconman wrote: post #14

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

These ages really should be legally aligned. If you're not responsible enough to live your own life, you've no business telling someone else how to live.

Nothing prevents you in Japan from drinking and smoking before 20. You just can't buy such goods directly, but it's well known that people get it thru other means (via a third party, friends, parents, etc...).

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#35

Post by AlanSE » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:22 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #19

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

The drunk driving argument extends to Japan extremely poorly due to cultural and infrastructure differences.

Public transportation in Japan is great. In urban areas it's also quite easy, accessible, and affordable to rent a capsule hotel "room" or net cafe seat. This is true no matter what your age or credit history, they won't ask for your drivers license, you can pay cash. It's honestly strange that I have to state some of these things, but I live in the U.S., and this country is all kinds of screwed up.

Also, the enforcement and norms for drunk driving (setting aside age entirely) are totally different. From my experience it's not common to have _a_ drink and drive, and the limit is "detectable".

For a driver in the U.S., the legal and cultural expectations are that you assess your own inebriation and decide when it's okay and when you need to get a cab. That standard doesn't really exist in Japan.

While I might not agree, I can understand people's hesitation about putting the U.S. standard on people aged 18 and 19. But Japan's standard? Pure nanny state.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#36

Post by ekianjo » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

jimcsharp wrote: post #9

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

Vote for a lower drinking age.

What's the benefit though? a larger group of people getting stomach cancer, in the country that has already the top stomach cancer rate in the world?

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#37

Post by walrus01 » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:24 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #19

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

Is there any statistic that shows a 21 drinking age reduces per capital teenage drunk driving deaths as compared to Quebec or Alberta, where it is 18?

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#38

Post by scarface74 » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:24 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #33

scarface74 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Because making the legal drinking age 21 has stopped people between 18-21 from getting alcohol. See also the “War on Drugs”

You can reduce something without stopping it. I'm not advocating for the policy change that was made. But the evidence suggests it was at least somewhat effective in the goal of reducing teenage accidents in which elevated blood alcohol levels were involved. People can differ on whether that justified the policy change or not.

Can you imagine one case where an 18-21 year old was at a party where people were drinking and they said “I can’t have that beer because I’m underage”.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#39

Post by ergothus » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:29 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #38

ghaff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can reduce something without stopping it. I'm not advocating for the policy change that was made. But the evidence suggests it was at least somewhat effective in the goal of reducing teenage accidents in which elevated blood alcohol levels were involved. People can differ on whether that justified the policy change or not.

Can you imagine one case where an 18-21 year old was at a party where people were drinking and they said “I can’t have that beer because I’m underage”.

Yes.

I'm against having the drinking age being above the "adulthood" age, and I KNOW lots of kids violate these laws, but it is absurd to say that every single person violates them given the chance.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#40

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:41 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #19

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

[deleted]