Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#41

Post by Thriptic » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:48 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #27

ghaff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Because making the legal drinking age 21 has stopped people between 18-21 from getting alcohol. See also the “War on Drugs”

Yeah it's dumb, but to be fair this is something where we get to have our cake and eat it too. The moralizers / religious / people fairly concerned about drunk driving get to feel good and maybe have a positive effect, and everyone that is 18-21 still gets ready access to alcohol at school where the need to drive is substantially reduced. Whenever I wanted to get alcohol at school, I could easily get it and the situation was the same with all of the friends I knew at other universities. If you don't go to school you get access through work friends.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#42

Post by asutekku » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

AlanSE wrote: post #35

ghaff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

The drunk driving argument extends to Japan extremely poorly due to cultural and infrastructure differences. Public transportation in Japan is great. In urban areas it's also quite easy, accessible, and affordable to rent a capsule hotel "room" or net cafe seat. This is true no matter what your age or credit history, they won't ask for your drivers license, you can pay cash. It's honestly strange that I have to state…

The reason why they don’t ask you is you are (most likely) a westerner. In my experience if you are an underage looking japanese buying alcohol alone, they most likely will ask your age.

And drunk driving in japan? It’s much more common than you would think.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#43

Post by diffeomorphism » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

I would heavily disagree that smoking only affects them individually. Also, someone with a gambling addiction or other addiction will need support from society.

That said, I also disagree with the "adult, but not quite" restrictions. Though the US also has its share of weirdness, where you can join the army, get married and have children before being allowed to buy alcohol or visit adult establishments.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#44

Post by jgowdy » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

superbaconman wrote: post #14

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

These ages really should be legally aligned. If you're not responsible enough to live your own life, you've no business telling someone else how to live.

Why not avoid artificially grouping those age restrictions out of an artificial sense of "fairness"? I was one of the previously rabid "if you can be sent to war you should be able to have a drink" back in my teens. The two topics aren't related. I insisted that they were to the ends of the earth before, but they aren't. Alcohol is a dangerous trap. Having the age be 21, even with some sneaking it early, is smart. 18 year olds don't need to try to deal with alcohol when 50 year olds can have a hard time with it. Your time will come.

When I was in my teens and 20s, I felt like older people were just rigging the rules for their benefit. As I approach 40, let me tell you younger folks something (even if it's useless), we are all on the same team and we're trying to make things the best we can (for you too). And when you get to this age, you'll do the same and younger people will rail at you the same way.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#45

Post by ezoe » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

It's not about the decision and responsibility. The reason is for the health. Alcohol and Tabaco affect the health of young people more than the old people. So the ban.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#46

Post by miki123211 » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

If you restrict people under the age of from doing something, they usually will find the means and do it anyway, but out of govt control, so it migt be even worse than if you didn't try. That is true about porn, alcochol, tobacco, working (I could never get that one) and lots of other things.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#47

Post by techdmn » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 1:58 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #19

pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

Personally I think the legal drinking age should be 18. I started drinking when I was 18, but didn't learn to do so responsibly until I was doing it in public. A bartender can refuse to serve, or call you a cab. Not that they always will, but I think it is advantageous to have at least one adult around keeping an eye on things. Sure there are plenty of irresponsible bartenders, but my experience says it's better than nothing.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#48

Post by jgowdy » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #2

> The bill includes clauses that are designed to protect against this problem. For example, young people will be able to cancel a contract if they believe salespeople have manipulated or pressured them into signing it. I’m curious to know how this is codified legally. Presumably this isn’t just a blanket “oh no I was conned into an agreement that should be invalidated”?

I would guess it's a simple cooling off period, which some states in the US have. It gives you 72 hours to recend the agreement. This allow you to escape the social pressures of the room where the contract is being signed. Allows you to escape the pressures of salesmanship and techniques. Allows you to consult with friends and family.

I understand arguments for and against these cooling off periods. However, I think for individual consumers they do more good than harm.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#49

Post by gambiting » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #28

TulliusCicero wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most US states do allow some measure of underage drinking with parental permission, IIRC. But it's true that that's not really a strong/common part of the culture.

As a practical if not legal matter, people can do more or less as they please in their own homes. But I'm personally glad I went to college at a time when drinking alcohol was pretty much all above board. (At least at the time, the fact that the drinking age was legally 18 meant that drinking as a college student was pretty much OK even if you weren't actually 18 yet. The local bar we frequented was fine with just a…

Well yes, your own home is certainly one thing. But I'm pretty sure in the UK you can totally order alcohol for your own kid at a restaurant and it's not illegal as long as the parent gives permission. In some other places it's illegal for someone to sell alcohol knowing that it will be consumed by a minor - so that scenario couldn't happen.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#50

Post by dasyatidprime » Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #38

ghaff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can reduce something without stopping it. I'm not advocating for the policy change that was made. But the evidence suggests it was at least somewhat effective in the goal of reducing teenage accidents in which elevated blood alcohol levels were involved. People can differ on whether that justified the policy change or not.

Can you imagine one case where an 18-21 year old was at a party where people were drinking and they said “I can’t have that beer because I’m underage”.

Yes.

Me.

Plus various other, similar situations.

(I am in complete honesty unsure whether to regret it.)