Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

blog.interviewing.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 173 posts

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#101

Post by sokoloff »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #55
sokoloff wrote: post #49

As a hiring manager, if you give me a fake name, it is to your advantage if it's the same fake name you use on LinkedIn, github, stackoverflow, and other sites that are going to come up when I google you... I don't care about your social media accounts, your country of origin, your gender, or anything else that's irrelevant to your performance, but I do care about your technical history and abilities (and of course,…

Most names (first name plus surname) are not unique.

Yes, but name and resume work history generally is unique enough, especially at the senior levels. There are five pages of results on LinkedIn for John Carmack. I suspect that you and I have the exact same John Carmack in mind, though.

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#102

Post by throwawaymath »

chrinic83 wrote: post #25
throwawaymath wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stcredzero? "Urban high school kid" isn't jumping out at me. ...Actually, nothing jumps out at me at all. I'm not sure what to make of it. Why do they read high school kid out of that?

"Millennial" here. stcredzero. Street credit. Usually referred to as social status in the neighborhood and local friend groups. Usually used by rappers and African American neighborhoods. However, people living in these neighborhoods don't actually say this today. Typically middle and high school students hear this on TV/radio and use it in their own (usually upper/middle class) circles to increase their social statu…

Fascinating. I'm a millenial and grew up in NYC, and I didn't get any of that. But everything you've said makes sense.

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#103

Post by [deleted] »

nostromo wrote: post #82
pesmhey wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spirit of the Civil Rights movement was to address lingering injustices that particularly affected the descendants of victims of the Atlantic slave trade. For a couple of decades, the spirit and intent of the law were coalescing, via affirmative action and other bias-busting policy. I think that someone along your thought process could make a strong case that the spirit of the Civil Rights movement has changed, t…

Can you clarify your last sentence? What am I being so obtuse about? To me the Civil Rights Act was a very well written law -- something we don't have enough of anymore. Nearly everyone can read and understand its intent. If we as a people decide that we want to overturn the Civil Rights Act to allow differing treatment based on race in order to achieve social justice -- then the right way to do that is by having a d…

[deleted]

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#104

Post by rdc12 »

rchaud wrote: post #79
hhs wrote: post #66

I think there are lots of factors involved with names, but yeah. Even the spelling of names makes a difference. Interesting example: Dale Carnegie deliberately changed his last name from "Carnagey" to "Carnegie" so people, on some subliminal way, may associate him with the classy steel-building Andrew Carnegie family.

Charlie Sheen's birth name is Ramon Estevez. Despite it's "liberal bias", Hollywood is notorious for its preference for "Real American (TM)" names.

And his dad, Martin Sheen's birth name was Ramón Gerard Antonio Estévez

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#105

Post by rosterface »

kradroy wrote: post #39
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hate to work somewhere knowing I was hired because the color of my skin and not my abilities. maybe less of an issue in non-brainy jobs, but in Tech I would feel more insecure not knowing if I got the job to fill a quota. This sounds rather disgusting to me.

At first I felt the same way because I may be a beneficiary of these types of policies. Who likes being a charity case? But then I realized that this is just work, and I don't really care. If it gets me closer to a comfortable retirement more quickly, so be it. Ends, means, etc. Edit: I'm speaking about opportunities in general. The selection policy described by GP would put me at a disadvantage because I have a comp…

I'm Hispanic and have resigned myself to this as well. While I may benefit from getting a job, I'm still subjected to what I would consider racism which I have to publicly turn a blind eye to. I'll give an example:

"Latinx" is not a thing. Yet, I need to listen to a lot of white and other non-hispanic people say it all of the time. It feels like someone just reached into our culture, ripped out its core identity and rebranded it (supposedly in our favor?). I dare not say anything about it though, part of accepting the job with the diversity bonus is that the same people that granted you that power can take it away at the drop of a hat.

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#106

Post by remoteworkerJ »

manfredo wrote: post #20

I suspect many companies wouldn't use this as it would make affirmative hiring policies more difficult. For example, recruiters at my company curate lists of names that are majority female, black, or Hispanic (pulled from the census bureau) in order to try and determine which candidates are diverse. Recruiters at my company aren't explicitly told to hit certain quotas, but they are given larger bonuses for diverse hi…

I always use fake name for interviews.

I use last name as Einstein or Goldberg often during interviewing.

Once I clear interview, I tell them that's my pet name and everyone calls me that.

In the last interview my name was Nicola Einstein and I did clear interview with flying colours

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#107

Post by manfredo »

jfk13 wrote: post #97
manfredo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I really hope it's clear that we don't deliberately hire unqualified candidate because they're considered diverse. It only affects resume reviews and phone interviews which are basically coin tosses.

If those stages are "basically coin tosses", why do you bother with them? It'd be quicker and cheaper to toss a coin.

To be more specific they do work to filter out candidates that unambiguously lack the required skills. But for candidates that do have the required skills it's more of a coim toss.

Working through a coding question online filters out candidates that can't code or are not competent at coding. But for candidates who can code sufficiently well, it's kind of a coin toss. Maybe they just don't think of the solution in time and what not.

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#108

Post by manfredo »

dragonwriter wrote: post #99
tha_nose wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It most definitely is not illegal. Many colleges have race and gender based quota systems. Governments have race and gender quota systems. Many federal, state and local governments set aside X percentage of their contracts solely for minority or female owned businesses. Whether this is right or wrong is another debate. But race, gender or "diversity" hiring or recruiting certainly isn't illegal. It happens all the ti…

> It most definitely is not illegal. Yes it is. > Many colleges have race and gender based quota systems. Quota systems have been repeatedly struck down in college admissions as illegal. > Governments have race and gender quota systems. Quota systems for public education (including higher education) and employment have also repeatedly been ruled illegal.

The distinction between quotas and "outcome based goals" is kind of hazy. To be clear, recruiters aren't required to hit certain targets. Leadership does tell recruiters that they're aiming for a a certain targets but as far as I know recruiters don't receive any penalty if they fall below that target.

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#109

Post by mamurphy »

OpieCunningham wrote: post #41
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hate to work somewhere knowing I was hired because the color of my skin and not my abilities. maybe less of an issue in non-brainy jobs, but in Tech I would feel more insecure not knowing if I got the job to fill a quota. This sounds rather disgusting to me.

Subconscious bias means your concern is applicable regardless of your skin color or gender. If you’re a white male, you could easily have been hired simply because of your skin color and gender and not your abilities. Effectively, your point is moot. Maybe worry less about the thoughts and feelings of who hired you and focus on doing your best work.

>If you’re a white male, you could easily have been hired simply because of your skin color and gender and not your abilities.

This may have been the case decade(s) ago, but I think the climate is very different now. With the prevalence of social "justice" hiring policies, I'd be much more confident I was hired because of ability, rather than to fill a quota, as a white male than any other race/sex combination.

Sadly, affirmative action creates "mismatch" that often worsens the problem it is trying to solve. Minorities are highly recruited to fill quotas, even if less capable. This (1) puts them in over their head setting them up to fail and (2) creates a perception that the minorities are inherently less qualified (rather than the truth, that they are being over-selected for).

One of many articles on this topic: https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-sad-...

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#110

Post by depressedpanda »

AcerbicZero wrote: post #69
jfk13 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, recruiters at my company curate lists of names that are majority female, black, or Hispanic (pulled from the census bureau) in order to try and determine which candidates are diverse. (Implied: in order to favour them at some point in the process.) Is that even legal? So as an individual with a traditional Western European male name, I would be at a relative disadvantage if I applied to your company. H…

It's also possible that companies which try to optimize hiring of knowledge workers with varying degrees of talent based on the ethnicity of their name will perform poorly over the long run, so being disadvantaged in the hiring process is actually an advantage for your career as a whole.

That does not necessarily follow.

E.g., if a company has a racist recruiting policy for hiring good candidates, the company still has a racist recruiting policy for hiring good candidates.

I.e., it's morally wrong, because it's racist, but will still provide candidates that are good enough to keep the company afloat, or even prospering.

Post reply on HN