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U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

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Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#91

Post by d-sc »

hellisothers wrote: post #80
cabalamat wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only solution seems to be to ensure that they are two different companies. If the EU comany is a subsiduary of the US company, then it will have to follow its orders and won't really be separate. Furthermore if people based in the USA have physical access to the servers located in the EU, then if the US government wants that data, it will probably be exfiltrated to the USA, regardless of what EU governments wan…

Here lies humanity, they tried to do the same things 15 different ways and squandered their resources doing so. (Not saying you’re advocating for this, just that it is the current plan it seems)

Humans are good at building houses and have many standard plans detailing how to do so. Yet we still hire architects to design custom homes.

I’m ok with that. Efficiency doesn’t always need to be the end all goal.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#92

Post by theossuary »

judge2020 wrote: post #59
hevi_jos wrote: post #57

Just look at the new HoloLens: It uses the cloud in order to analyze the objects in front of you at your office, your house or whatever on real time. Combine that with this with companies like Apple tracking your pulse in your clock(that gives them knowledge about your deep emotions an activities on real time). Add companies like Google that track your phone, your car(with the maps abilities) on real time. Add to thi…

> Apple tracking your pulse in your phone(that gives them knowledge about your deep emotions an activities on real time). Health data is encrypted to a point where Apple can't read it: https://www.apple.com/business/site/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.... > Health data can be stored in iCloud. When configured for iCloud storage, Health data is synced between devices and secured by encryption that protects the data both in t…

It says data is encrypted in transit and at rest, it does not say that data is E2E encrypted. That's a big difference. They could (probably are) just using TLS and disk encryption.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#93

Post by acct1771 »

fixermark wrote: post #84
chopin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Claims...

With respect, what you linked to is a conspiracy theory that the ME is used in ways other than explicitly stated by Intel and unsupported by any evidence other than allegation.

"Can be used in ways other than explicitly stated" quickly turns into "is used": "https://hackaday.com/2017/12/07/another-defeat-of-the-intel-...

"The Intel Management Engine with its proprietary firmware has complete access to and control over the PC: it can power on or shut down the PC, read all open files, examine all running applications, track all keys pressed and mouse movements, and even capture or display images on the screen. And it has a network interface that is demonstrably insecure, which can allow an attacker on the network to inject rootkits that completely compromise the PC and can report to the attacker all activities performed on the PC. It is a threat to freedom, security, and privacy that can't be ignored." - Hackaday

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#94

Post by skrause »

icebraining wrote: post #67
CannisterFlux wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Microsoft response was to have a separate German trustee be the ones that held the data, and MS have access to the data as needed (but I guess MS could not just hand it all over to the US government when demanded to) https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/global-infrastructure/germ... "All customer data and related systems reside in Germany Controlled by a German data trustee"

Microsoft Cloud Germany with its trustee model isn't accepting new customers, you'll have to wait for their new regions that are only coming at the end of the year: https://news.microsoft.com/europe/2018/08/31/microsoft-to-de...

But those new German regions will be controlled by Microsoft, so they fall under the Cloud Act.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#95

Post by Kankuro »

Ok, so there should be reciprocal European law: any company operating in the EU must provide access to the EU authorities (all countries) any data managed by it and stored in any country in the world (so including US data stored in the US), otherwise it would get big fines or interdiction to operate in the EU. (PS: I don't want that, it should work like extradition but with real reciprocity)

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#96

Post by delinka »

Neil44 wrote: post #37
Isinlor wrote: post #36

If complying with CLOUD act would infringe on EU citizens rights, is there any legal reason why EU regulator should not fine a company that is infringing EU laws? We, Europeans, should follow our laws to their full extend and fine infringing companies with full power. No matter on whose request they break our laws. Be it Russians, Chinese, Australian or Americans.

I agree. Companies need to find a way to operate within the law, or not operate. Throwing your hands up and saying it’s too hard is not an acceptable answer.

>Throwing your hands up and saying it’s too hard...

Sounds like the "not operate" option.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#97

Post by delinka »

mcv wrote: post #55
Neil44 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Companies need to find a way to operate within the law, or not operate. Throwing your hands up and saying it’s too hard is not an acceptable answer.

I'm not sure how I feel about this argument in light of article 13 of the EU's new copyright directive. Legislators also have a responsibility to make laws that are reasonable and possible to obey. It is possible for companies to obey the Cloud Act, but as far as I can see, only by choosing between operating in the US and operating in the EU. If that's considered unreasonable, then it's a bad law.

A company choosing to operate in multiple jurisdictions with competing/contradicting laws does not put a requirement on lawmakers to make the laws more amenable to the company trying to satisfy both jurisdictions. If you take that path, consumers end up with little protection under the law.

Maybe the company should split up operations, or operate under licensing agreements with foreign companies rather than thwart the will of the people who they seek to fleece.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#98

Post by loxs »

dang wrote: post #90
loxs wrote: post #12

Of course. Decades of highest taxes on the planet make you uncompetitive and weak. Now we can only be "frightened" instead of us frightening the others.

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?

Not before you vote me to reputation that will prevent me from posting. Before that, I have the same rights and privileges as you, with regards of posting.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#99

Post by dang »

loxs wrote: post #98
dang wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?

Not before you vote me to reputation that will prevent me from posting. Before that, I have the same rights and privileges as you, with regards of posting.

I'm afraid that's not the case. HN moderators (of which I'm one—sorry if that wasn't clear) ban accounts that keep posting unsubstantive comments. It's just one of the things we have to do in the attempt to keep this site from degenerating too quickly.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#100

Post by kimi »

burittoTTY wrote: post #72
sschueller wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but sadly very expensive when compared to Linode or Digital Ocean.

Exoscale has the best support and privacy of any of the cloud providers. They also offer more enterprise features like prepaid accounts (with proper invoices!) that Linode doesn't offer. We've used their services happily and would recommend them to others.

We have been caught in the middle of a big screw-up Exoscale did - they managed to rebuild a RAID array wrong, and lost all data of one of our boxes. This said, they have been very open and quick to respond and explaned what happened in great detail, so we will keep on using their services.
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