U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#51

Post by mc32 » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

vegardx wrote: post #10

tyfon wrote: post #2

As of today we have cloud offerings of for instance azure completely separate from the US companies due to this. Here in Norway we can get the complete azure offering from a company called Evry using azure stack [1] and there is a data centre like this in Germany too at least that I know of, probably many more. And sectors like government and banking are required to use them and not the parent companies offerings, es…

Outside of the government sector it seems like these laws are to make sure that the data is within legal jurisdiction, and has nothing to do with privacy.

Didn’t Russia require something like this back in 2016 or so? All data pertaining to Russians had to stay in Russia?

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#52

Post by 420codebro » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

guitarbill wrote: post #41

mcv wrote: post #26

I think this CLOUD Act will basically force internationally operating US companies to split up into a US part and an EU part. This law makes it impossible for any company with access to personal data of EU citizens, to obey both US and EU law. The only solution seems to be to ensure that they are two different companies. The other option is to abandon the EU market. What still surprises me is that nearly all of the m…

> The only solution seems to be to ensure that they are two different companies. The other option is to abandon the EU market. > What still surprises me is that nearly all of the major cloud companies are based in the US. Microsoft, Amazon, Netflix, Google, Apple, all of them US companies. If ever a law is going to create some EU competitors, it's the Cloud Act. Given that e.g. AWS alone "owns"/operates two regions i…

AWS China is ran by a in-country 3rd party Chinese entity. Similar structure to what the above describes - a separate, but related entity.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#53

Post by TomMarius » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

kkarakk wrote: post #47

tyfon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is why you use azure stack and not azure. It's a licensed version of the software that you can run completely independent of Microsoft.

licenses usually include provisions for being disabled if the parent country requires it. see what happened to iran when US levied sanctions

Disabled != data changes hands.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#54

Post by TomMarius » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

ionised wrote: post #38

TomMarius wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One step at a time. Having physical control over data definitely is an improvement. Not everyone believes conspiracy theories about spy microchips in mainboards.

> believes conspiracy theories about spy microchips in mainboards. You mean not everyone believes the cold, hard truth? That's unfortunate, because most of us here saw the evidence of this taking place.

If you're talking about Intel ME, just use AMD or ARM.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#55

Post by mcv » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 1:58 PM UTC

Neil44 wrote: post #37

Isinlor wrote: post #36

If complying with CLOUD act would infringe on EU citizens rights, is there any legal reason why EU regulator should not fine a company that is infringing EU laws? We, Europeans, should follow our laws to their full extend and fine infringing companies with full power. No matter on whose request they break our laws. Be it Russians, Chinese, Australian or Americans.

I agree. Companies need to find a way to operate within the law, or not operate. Throwing your hands up and saying it’s too hard is not an acceptable answer.

I'm not sure how I feel about this argument in light of article 13 of the EU's new copyright directive. Legislators also have a responsibility to make laws that are reasonable and possible to obey.

It is possible for companies to obey the Cloud Act, but as far as I can see, only by choosing between operating in the US and operating in the EU. If that's considered unreasonable, then it's a bad law.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#56

Post by lightbyte » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 2:03 PM UTC

tormeh wrote: post #11

stunt wrote: post #5

Is there a good European cloud provider?

Scaleway and Hetzner come to mind, although I have no idea how good they are.

I use Scaleway to host a personal Nextcloud [1] instance. I haven't had any issues with them thus far and their instances are pretty darn cheap.

[1] https://nextcloud.com/about/

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#57

Post by hevi_jos » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

Just look at the new HoloLens: It uses the cloud in order to analyze the objects in front of you at your office, your house or whatever on real time.

Combine that with this with companies like Apple tracking your pulse in your clock(that gives them knowledge about your deep emotions an activities on real time).

Add companies like Google that track your phone, your car(with the maps abilities) on real time.

Add to this companies that track what your friends are doing on real time: https://www.apertus.org/facebook

This gives the US secret services more control over people than Stasi had. With the difference that they control all the people in the world. Too much power with so small oversight.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#58

Post by pergadad » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #26

I think this CLOUD Act will basically force internationally operating US companies to split up into a US part and an EU part. This law makes it impossible for any company with access to personal data of EU citizens, to obey both US and EU law. The only solution seems to be to ensure that they are two different companies. The other option is to abandon the EU market. What still surprises me is that nearly all of the m…

Wouldn't the cloud act also apply to subsidiaries? It's be surprised if the giants can at the same time split (for the purposes of the cloud act) and stay one coherent entity with central steering.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#59

Post by judge2020 » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

hevi_jos wrote: post #57

Just look at the new HoloLens: It uses the cloud in order to analyze the objects in front of you at your office, your house or whatever on real time. Combine that with this with companies like Apple tracking your pulse in your clock(that gives them knowledge about your deep emotions an activities on real time). Add companies like Google that track your phone, your car(with the maps abilities) on real time. Add to thi…

> Apple tracking your pulse in your phone(that gives them knowledge about your deep emotions an activities on real time).

Health data is encrypted to a point where Apple can't read it:

https://www.apple.com/business/site/docs/iOS_Security_Guide....

> Health data can be stored in iCloud. When configured for iCloud storage, Health data is synced between devices and secured by encryption that protects the data both in transit and at rest. H

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#60

Post by mcv » Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

pergadad wrote: post #58

mcv wrote: post #26

I think this CLOUD Act will basically force internationally operating US companies to split up into a US part and an EU part. This law makes it impossible for any company with access to personal data of EU citizens, to obey both US and EU law. The only solution seems to be to ensure that they are two different companies. The other option is to abandon the EU market. What still surprises me is that nearly all of the m…

Wouldn't the cloud act also apply to subsidiaries? It's be surprised if the giants can at the same time split (for the purposes of the cloud act) and stay one coherent entity with central steering.

I suppose that's going to be the big challenge. You'd want a structure where neither company controls the other, yet they still have every incentive to cooperate closely.

Maybe they should each own 49% of the other's stock?