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U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

bloomberg.com

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Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#71

Post by Dahoon »

ionised wrote: post #38
TomMarius wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One step at a time. Having physical control over data definitely is an improvement. Not everyone believes conspiracy theories about spy microchips in mainboards.

> believes conspiracy theories about spy microchips in mainboards. You mean not everyone believes the cold, hard truth? That's unfortunate, because most of us here saw the evidence of this taking place.

No one outside of Bloomberg has seen any evidence of mainboard spy chips. You must be thinking about CPUs.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#72

Post by burittoTTY »

sschueller wrote: post #30
Nux wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.exoscale.com/

Yes but sadly very expensive when compared to Linode or Digital Ocean.

Exoscale has the best support and privacy of any of the cloud providers. They also offer more enterprise features like prepaid accounts (with proper invoices!) that Linode doesn't offer.

We've used their services happily and would recommend them to others.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#73

Post by tribaal »

Nux wrote: post #64
tribaal wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand the claim that we are "very expensive" :) Linode 4Gb -> 30$/month Exoscale Medium (4Gb) -> 34$/month. However exoscale is ISO certified, will handle european VAT, and let you scale storage independently. We also don't overcommit our servers so you actually get what you pay for. Sure, if you need an absolute minimum cost VM in an non-enterprise setting, you'll find cheaper at American compani…

No need to leave EU for the absolute minimum cost, with Hetzner nearby and others.

That's somewhat true, I should have s/American/other/

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#74

Post by solarkraft »

baybal2 wrote: post #6
tyfon wrote: post #2

As of today we have cloud offerings of for instance azure completely separate from the US companies due to this. Here in Norway we can get the complete azure offering from a company called Evry using azure stack [1] and there is a data centre like this in Germany too at least that I know of, probably many more. And sectors like government and banking are required to use them and not the parent companies offerings, es…

That cloud thing is overhyped. The "Cloud" will never swallow the budget and mid-tier hosting industry for purely economic reasons. Uncle Liu hosting Co. and AWS are the same things underneath, running mainstream x86 hardware, and both buying from mid-tier OEM server assemblers. The days of people buying $10k Dell servers are gone, and ones ability to capitalise on undercutting major hosters by buying directly from O…

> the same things underneath, running mainstream x86 hardware

Maybe not for long. Some providers (Amazon, Google) are working on their own processors.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#75

Post by solarkraft »

tormeh wrote: post #11
stunt wrote: post #5

Is there a good European cloud provider?

Scaleway and Hetzner come to mind, although I have no idea how good they are.

I don't use Hetzner personally, but they've been in business for a long time and have only heard good things about them. They're cost competitive too.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#76

Post by cabalamat »

mcv wrote: post #26

I think this CLOUD Act will basically force internationally operating US companies to split up into a US part and an EU part. This law makes it impossible for any company with access to personal data of EU citizens, to obey both US and EU law. The only solution seems to be to ensure that they are two different companies. The other option is to abandon the EU market. What still surprises me is that nearly all of the m…

> The only solution seems to be to ensure that they are two different companies.

If the EU comany is a subsiduary of the US company, then it will have to follow its orders and won't really be separate.

Furthermore if people based in the USA have physical access to the servers located in the EU, then if the US government wants that data, it will probably be exfiltrated to the USA, regardless of what EU governments want.

The solution is for EU governments to have control over their own computing infrastructure. This obviously includes cloud computing and datacenters. But it also needs to include operating systems and chips, because otherwise the risk of a foreign power putting a backdoor in them is too great.

Ditto for all countries, of course.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#77

Post by tribaal »

stunt wrote: post #62
tribaal wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exoscale.com is based in Switzerland, and offers zones in several European jurisdictions as well. Disclaimer: I work for exoscale.

What is stopping you to provide more managed services? A lot of smaller businesses don't run on Kubernetes. So compute power is not enough for them. They need managed services.

What kind of managed service do you have in mind?

We plan to offer some managed services, but I can't hint at an ETA for that (I don't know myself).

I think we need to communicate more around our roadmap in general.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#78

Post by sangnoir »

judge2020 wrote: post #59
hevi_jos wrote: post #57

Just look at the new HoloLens: It uses the cloud in order to analyze the objects in front of you at your office, your house or whatever on real time. Combine that with this with companies like Apple tracking your pulse in your clock(that gives them knowledge about your deep emotions an activities on real time). Add companies like Google that track your phone, your car(with the maps abilities) on real time. Add to thi…

> Apple tracking your pulse in your phone(that gives them knowledge about your deep emotions an activities on real time). Health data is encrypted to a point where Apple can't read it: https://www.apple.com/business/site/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.... > Health data can be stored in iCloud. When configured for iCloud storage, Health data is synced between devices and secured by encryption that protects the data both in t…

> Health data is encrypted to a point where Apple can't read it

Apple controls the encryption keys and the underlying OS. If the user is not in control of the encryption, then it's nothing more than a pinky-promise that they won't peek at your data, for example, if a new management team takes over tomorrow.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#79

Post by olau »

mcv wrote: post #26

I think this CLOUD Act will basically force internationally operating US companies to split up into a US part and an EU part. This law makes it impossible for any company with access to personal data of EU citizens, to obey both US and EU law. The only solution seems to be to ensure that they are two different companies. The other option is to abandon the EU market. What still surprises me is that nearly all of the m…

I talked to a lawyer specializing in data protection a couple of years ago, and according to her, the problem is already there - you cannot satisfy both the GDPR and US law that requires that the US government can snoop whenever they want to.

Currently, the companies are getting away with it, but with people like Max Schrems, they might not be able to in the long run.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#80

Post by hellisothers »

cabalamat wrote: post #76
mcv wrote: post #26

I think this CLOUD Act will basically force internationally operating US companies to split up into a US part and an EU part. This law makes it impossible for any company with access to personal data of EU citizens, to obey both US and EU law. The only solution seems to be to ensure that they are two different companies. The other option is to abandon the EU market. What still surprises me is that nearly all of the m…

> The only solution seems to be to ensure that they are two different companies. If the EU comany is a subsiduary of the US company, then it will have to follow its orders and won't really be separate. Furthermore if people based in the USA have physical access to the servers located in the EU, then if the US government wants that data, it will probably be exfiltrated to the USA, regardless of what EU governments wan…

Here lies humanity, they tried to do the same things 15 different ways and squandered their resources doing so.

(Not saying you’re advocating for this, just that it is the current plan it seems)

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