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U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

bloomberg.com

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Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#61

Post by tribaal »

sschueller wrote: post #30
Nux wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.exoscale.com/

Yes but sadly very expensive when compared to Linode or Digital Ocean.

I'm not sure I understand the claim that we are "very expensive" :)

Linode 4Gb -> 30$/month Exoscale Medium (4Gb) -> 34$/month.

However exoscale is ISO certified, will handle european VAT, and let you scale storage independently. We also don't overcommit our servers so you actually get what you pay for.

Sure, if you need an absolute minimum cost VM in an non-enterprise setting, you'll find cheaper at American companies. Nobody will dispute that :)

Disclaimer: SSWE at exoscale.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#62

Post by stunt »

tribaal wrote: post #21
stunt wrote: post #5

Is there a good European cloud provider?

exoscale.com is based in Switzerland, and offers zones in several European jurisdictions as well. Disclaimer: I work for exoscale.

What is stopping you to provide more managed services? A lot of smaller businesses don't run on Kubernetes. So compute power is not enough for them. They need managed services.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#63

Post by la6470 »

Why are nations assuming crime even before they are committed? There are already provisions in law to prosecute a company if it breaks any law. Imagine that tomorrow EU says no to Japanese car and China says no to Siemens telecom equipment. This is kind of anal thinking by the policy makers.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#64

Post by Nux »

tribaal wrote: post #61
sschueller wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but sadly very expensive when compared to Linode or Digital Ocean.

I'm not sure I understand the claim that we are "very expensive" :) Linode 4Gb -> 30$/month Exoscale Medium (4Gb) -> 34$/month. However exoscale is ISO certified, will handle european VAT, and let you scale storage independently. We also don't overcommit our servers so you actually get what you pay for. Sure, if you need an absolute minimum cost VM in an non-enterprise setting, you'll find cheaper at American compani…

No need to leave EU for the absolute minimum cost, with Hetzner nearby and others.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#65

Post by thg »

TomMarius wrote: post #54
ionised wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> believes conspiracy theories about spy microchips in mainboards. You mean not everyone believes the cold, hard truth? That's unfortunate, because most of us here saw the evidence of this taking place.

If you're talking about Intel ME, just use AMD or ARM.

Both have their own ME equivalent with ARM TrustZone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platform_Security_Processo...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_TrustZone#TrustZone_(for_C...

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#66

Post by thefounder »

Foxboron wrote: post #35
thefounder wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encryption is useless when you store the keys on the same infrastucture. U.S may ask for keys as well. Even if you would store the keys on a local service at some point your data will lie/transition decrypted on the remote hardware. It's not a good idea at all to use hardware controlled by a hostile government regardless of what kind of encryption you plan to use.

>Encryption is useless when you store the keys on the same infrastucture. U.S may ask for keys as well. Are you claiming HSM are unsafe? >Even if you would store the keys on a local service at some point your data will lie/transition decrypted on the remote hardware. Well no. You have TPM and HMS which should solve this problem sufficiently. Even hardware tokens for crypto e.g Nitrokey and/or yubikey should be suffic…

Once the attacker gets physical access to your device/computer all bets are off. Not to mention if "your device" is actually provided by a hostile party(i.e amazon/microsoft in collaboration with various US agencies).

A government/state is hostile if it breaks the laws designed to protect the citizens and their freedoms(i.e privacy). I believe it's obvious by now that the U.S government seeks not only to apply its justice system over sovereign states but also to control the politics and get strategic information, even from its "allies".

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#67

Post by icebraining »

CannisterFlux wrote: post #46
mcv wrote: post #26

I think this CLOUD Act will basically force internationally operating US companies to split up into a US part and an EU part. This law makes it impossible for any company with access to personal data of EU citizens, to obey both US and EU law. The only solution seems to be to ensure that they are two different companies. The other option is to abandon the EU market. What still surprises me is that nearly all of the m…

The Microsoft response was to have a separate German trustee be the ones that held the data, and MS have access to the data as needed (but I guess MS could not just hand it all over to the US government when demanded to) https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/global-infrastructure/germ... "All customer data and related systems reside in Germany Controlled by a German data trustee"

Microsoft Cloud Germany with its trustee model isn't accepting new customers, you'll have to wait for their new regions that are only coming at the end of the year: https://news.microsoft.com/europe/2018/08/31/microsoft-to-de...

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#68

Post by icebraining »

tinus_hn wrote: post #39
tyfon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banking data is at least considered to be "important" enough to keep within the borders too, but privacy is important too in regards to GDPR. How do you prevent unauthorized access to the data (i.e. the US government) with the cloud act. Do you report those requests as a breech? There is really no difference between that and having the servers hacked in other ways.

It’s the other way around, the Europeans want to be able to snoop in the data. They don’t care if your data leaks to the US, as long as they have access themselves.

Well, no, we do care if the data leaks to the US; the ECJ struck down the Safe Habour Decision, and there are many critics of the new "Privacy Shield".

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#69

Post by noir_lord »

jdietrich wrote: post #50
ben_w wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the point of Brexit seems to be “sovereignty” which in turn seems to mean “no foreign courts ever not even for trade deals”, I think that even a 10:1 devaluation of GBP vs. EUR wouldn’t make a post-Brexit UK appealing for hosting EU-27 services. And even my worst-case estimates are not yet beyond 1.3:1 devaluation.

Transfers of personal data to non-EU countries are specifically regulated by Chapter 5 of GDPR. After Brexit, Britain is "foreign" as far as the EU is concerned. It's also worth noting that a lot of Brexiters consider closer political ties and a strong trade deal with the US as an essential element of their ideal Brexit scenario, by weakening Britain's ties to (and dependency on) the EU. In a no deal/hard Brexit scen…

Agreed and that's a terrible outcome as far as I'm concerned.

Politically I'm far more in favour of the EU than the US, the idea that we move further towards the US is horrifying.

If that happens I'm out the door.

Re: U.S. Cloud Act is raising concern about extraterritoriality

#70

Post by Dahoon »

chopin wrote: post #45
fixermark wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Can you provide a source?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Claims...

How is that a chip in a mainboard? The mainboard story was a propaganda piece in Bloomberg aimed at China.
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