Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line • Hacker News Board

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#221

Post by derekp7 » Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

masonic wrote: post #138

bit_logic wrote: post #54

This was really shortsighted. PHEV is currently the best technology. I think the push for full EV is premature for mass market. It works for niche cases like Tesla, but not something that can be truly mainstream. With current battery tech and infrastructure, EV is a 50 mile technology. It has nothing to do with battery tech itself, doesn't matter how light or dense the battery is. The limit is infrastructure. 50 mile…

EV is a 50 mile technology Sssshhhh, don't tell Tesla or Hyundai that. PHEV is a solution looking for a problem. You only add a little bit more range versus a plain ICE, and that's at the expense of lugging around an extra motor and battery array. The whole carpool lane eligibility for hybrids is a crutch and the only selling distinction for PHEVs. (If you're driving far enough for a carpool lane to even matter, you'…

You could also say that having large batteries is a solution looking for a problem. If 95% of your driving is under 50 miles a day, then you are lugging around 150 miles worth of extra batteries (to get that 200 mile range) that still need a long charge cycle, where you could easily replace that 150 miles of batteries with an ICE that will get you unlimited miles with a 5-minute fuling stop in between. And still end up saving you on gas during 95% of your other driving.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#222

Post by rjsw » Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

usrusr wrote: post #175

atq2119 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it still as dirty as an ICE car, though? Considering that electric engines are so much more efficient than combustion engines, which reduces the primary energy use significantly?

On the chemical level, , before applying conversion, transmission and utilization inefficiencies that all drive trains suffer from in some form, coal releases more CO2 per Joule of raw output than petrol. Up to 50% more, depending on coal quality, according to the tables at https://www.volker-quaschning.de/datserv/CO2-spez/index_e.ph... . The difference is even bigger between coal and natural gas, so if the EV wins t…

... and brown coal is the worst kind.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#223

Post by bluedino » Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 4:47 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #193

avs733 wrote: post #18

>It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017 model. Completely agree. I leased a first gen and am now leasing a second gen volt. I'm actually considering buying my current car at the end of the lease. As a bike commuter, it is my only vehicle, which is why I went the hybrid rather than full electric route. The…

tl;dr very long, owned a Volt, because of it bought a TM3 Owned a 2017 Chevrolet Volt, I made this choice because I wanted to "dip my toes" into the EV experience and only needing one car I needed one that could go anywhere. I make two trips per year by car one of which is thirteen hundred miles round trip. The fit and finish was very good for any car, it drove very well, and EV mode was an eye opener. Being in Georg…

>> I make two trips per year by car one of which is thirteen hundred miles round trip.

Why not rent a car or fly?

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#224

Post by longhorn_alum » Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

avs733 wrote: post #18

>It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017 model. Completely agree. I leased a first gen and am now leasing a second gen volt. I'm actually considering buying my current car at the end of the lease. As a bike commuter, it is my only vehicle, which is why I went the hybrid rather than full electric route. The…

> I asked about a billion 'why did you/why didn't you' questions and was amazed at how many good ideas were left on the table.

Never leave anything on the table.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#225

Post by marvin » Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

logifail wrote: post #199

jdietrich wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See page 42 of the source report. UBS and Munro predict a 33% reduction in battery costs due to broader industry pricing trends, with a further reduction of 10-25% on powertrain components due to economies of scale and technology improvements. The report argues that the Bolt is already profitable on a contribution basis (sale price - cost of goods sold), meaning that GM make money on every Bolt they sell. What makes…

> high fuel costs mean that pure EVs already have a lower TCO than ICE vehicle Got a source for this claim? I bought a new ICE vehicle six months ago, in round figures it cost me $13,800 (that's the on the road price of the base model, including a couple of minor extras and all applicable taxes). The electric version of that exact same vehicle has a list price of $31,300. No, that isn't a typo. The salesman seemed fa…

I hope you're not basing your reasoning purely on what the sales representative of the dealership said about EVs. Car dealerships have an incentive to undersell EVs because they require less of the routine maintenance that combustion engine cars require (oil changes, brake pad changes). Dealerships make much of their money on servicing, so this is not in their interest.

In Norway, a new electric car car is obviously better on a TCO basis, due to much cheaper fuel, no VAT or other taxes on purchase, free passage through toll roads, cheaper ferries and free parking. Most of those are political incentives, so I can't speak for countries that have no such incentives.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#226

Post by mrep » Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

rapsey wrote: post #99

mrep wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt that. The US is now the largest producer of oil [0], it looks to keep growing, and "A 2016 conservative estimate set the total world resources of oil shale equivalent to yield of 6.05 trillion barrels (962 billion cubic metres) of shale oil, with the largest resource deposits in the United States accounting for more than 80% of the world total resource. For comparison, at the same time the world's prov…

How are those two related? A panicked futures market during a war can drive up the price.

What war do you imagine would mess up oil production? The only big producers that aren't nuclear powers are in the middle east and we all know how that went down last time in the gulf war.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#227

Post by sbierwagen » Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

logifail wrote: post #199

jdietrich wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See page 42 of the source report. UBS and Munro predict a 33% reduction in battery costs due to broader industry pricing trends, with a further reduction of 10-25% on powertrain components due to economies of scale and technology improvements. The report argues that the Bolt is already profitable on a contribution basis (sale price - cost of goods sold), meaning that GM make money on every Bolt they sell. What makes…

> high fuel costs mean that pure EVs already have a lower TCO than ICE vehicle Got a source for this claim? I bought a new ICE vehicle six months ago, in round figures it cost me $13,800 (that's the on the road price of the base model, including a couple of minor extras and all applicable taxes). The electric version of that exact same vehicle has a list price of $31,300. No, that isn't a typo. The salesman seemed fa…

>in round figures it cost me $13,800 (that's the on the road price of the base model, including a couple of minor extras and all applicable taxes).

Where in Europe do you live?

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#228

Post by cmurf » Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 5:02 PM UTC

zeroping wrote: post #109

avs733 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We talked for a while about using the onboard GPS to help the hybrid system optimize decisions about power management if it knew where you were going. We also talked about variable regenerative braking which ended up in the 2nd gen Lawyers and 'the idiot public' we're a lot of it.

I just want to know why the clock can't be set using the GPS.

Or WWVB. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#229

Post by greglindahl » Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

jac_no_k wrote: post #143

avs733 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically...you can't build a car with a novice and expert operator mode as much sense as that would make. Also the amount of thought that goes into some decisions kinda amazed me.

Regarding "novice and expert" mode. Default should be novice mode. Extra steps to go into "expert" mode. Examples I could think of: * Launch control (maximum acceleration from a stop.) * Track mode (turn down or disable stability control) * One pedal drive mode. (Nissan Leaf e-pedal or just B-mode for strong regen) Ah well... It would be interesting to hear more of the reasons behind decisions.

I suspect she was mainly talking about "no one pedal driving" as novice mode -- and I think it's a mistake to turn that off for novices, because it's something that drivers quickly adapt to having. And then love.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#230

Post by tankerdude » Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 5:12 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #193

avs733 wrote: post #18

>It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017 model. Completely agree. I leased a first gen and am now leasing a second gen volt. I'm actually considering buying my current car at the end of the lease. As a bike commuter, it is my only vehicle, which is why I went the hybrid rather than full electric route. The…

tl;dr very long, owned a Volt, because of it bought a TM3 Owned a 2017 Chevrolet Volt, I made this choice because I wanted to "dip my toes" into the EV experience and only needing one car I needed one that could go anywhere. I make two trips per year by car one of which is thirteen hundred miles round trip. The fit and finish was very good for any car, it drove very well, and EV mode was an eye opener. Being in Georg…

All that about Tesla is true. The one hope I have is the updating software. Their usb stick audio is miserable. Favorites break.

Better phone integration would be great.

Either way, the electric car experience is so much better than anything else. Maintenance on my Leaf is near nothing.