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Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

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Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#171
I call out BS one dollar a charge. At 12 cents a kwh in OK its almost $2 to charge 16 kwh of batteries. And I live in a state adjacent to OK withe the same nominal kwh charge. However when you include all the #$&*: fees (like cellphones) the true cost is 18 cents a kwh. At this rate $2 gasoline in in a compact car is the same cost per mile for electric per mile (6 cents).

I suspect he is averaging the free charging at work which cuts the true cost in half.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#172
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regenerative braking, significantly simpler drivetrain, pure electric for the cities. Only problem I have is they use normal car engines as range extenders. Could've gone with a simpler/cheaper wankel or microturbine optimized for high RPM, but I guess it's quicker to slap on an engine you already have.

Recently there is some buzz that Mazda might bring back their rotary engine in a hybrid, which actually might be a good way to go about the power/weight problem.

There is absolutely zero reason to mass produce a Wankel ever again.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#173
post #67

Somehow, I am kind of reminded of GM's Saturn division. 1) make a concept 2) consumers like it 3) but GM can't make it cheaply enough, or sell it at a price that reflects it's cost 4) so they end the model and close the plant I have the impression that what is wrong with GM is not the Volt, or the old Saturn for that matter, but rather the people who run the company.

Correct, at least from my anecdata. Worked for GM in 2010 on drive-by-wire and safety tech for EV:s, but soon quit in disgust. Management had zero drive or vision to make EV’s a reality, and would rather just pump out more gas cars.

You're a dickface.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#174
I would conjecture that while GM is _saying_ publicly that they're going full-bore on pure EV they've done a 180 since the end of their federal tax credits and the election of Trump and in fact are doing their best to just focus on what makes them money at home, Equinoxs and Silverados, and make all that weird eco-stuff for markets abroad ... in China.

Closing factories in the US and Canada and laying people off is a part of that. Shutting down the Volt is also part of that, as it's a through-and-through domestically produced machine out of Michigan.

Trump style politics and climate denying in the 'conservative' movement is setting North America back. In 20 years when the dust settles the locus of production of the next generation of vehicles will be in Asia, and we'll be behind.

I love my Volt, it's the best car I've owned. I used to be a big advocate of the GM EV program. The engineering is top notch. But the engineers at GM seem to have been undermined by their management. It's very sad.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#175
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't pat yourself on the back too hard for that. That route takes you through some of the most CO2-intensive electricity grids. A Tesla charged in Poland is a much dirtier car than a Tesla charged in California or Switzerland. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that making that trip is a terrible thing to do. I do worse things myself, e.g. traveling by plane. We all have the option of instantly reducing…

Is it still as dirty as an ICE car, though? Considering that electric engines are so much more efficient than combustion engines, which reduces the primary energy use significantly?

On the chemical level, , before applying conversion, transmission and utilization inefficiencies that all drive trains suffer from in some form, coal releases more CO2 per Joule of raw output than petrol. Up to 50% more, depending on coal quality, according to the tables at https://www.volker-quaschning.de/datserv/CO2-spez/index_e.ph... . The difference is even bigger between coal and natural gas, so if the EV wins the comparison by a considerable but not stellar margin on a gas-powered grid it might still lose on a coal grid.

Basically, my point is that even when you are driving an EV you are still driving. We are prone to forget that.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See page 42 of the source report. UBS and Munro predict a 33% reduction in battery costs due to broader industry pricing trends, with a further reduction of 10-25% on powertrain components due to economies of scale and technology improvements. The report argues that the Bolt is already profitable on a contribution basis (sale price - cost of goods sold), meaning that GM make money on every Bolt they sell. What makes…

> Demand for the Bolt is substantially outstripping supply in Europe, because high fuel costs mean that pure EVs already have a lower TCO than ICE vehicles; It's likely that GM can achieve profitability simply by ramping up production, assuming that their battery suppliers can keep up with demand. GM does not sell the Bolt in Europe at all. It was originally sold as the Opel Ampera, but GM sold their interest in Opel…

Opel Ampera is the Volt not the Bolt.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in my country, two years ago (presumably when avs733 was buying his car) if you wanted an all-electric vehicle with >150 mile range, you had to spend £90,000 on a Tesla Model S. All the other manufacturers' cars (Renault Zoe, BMW i3, Nissan Leaf, VW e-Golf) were 145 mile range or less. It's only recently that EVs like the Hyundai Kona (£30k for 245 miles) and the Jaguar I-Pace (£61k for 235 miles) have come…

150 versus 145 miles is nothing. Why is 150 of all numbers the requirement?

Perhaps I wasn't clear, what I mean to say is "If you wish to buy a new all-electric car and, after taking taking into account your mix of city and highway driving; how closely you believe your driving will match the different range testing standards; availability and speed of charging along your route and at your destination; different speeds of charging with different battery sizes and at different battery charge levels; anticipated battery degradation with usage; expected passenger and luggage weight; extra range 'safety margin'; and the uncertainty of your needs over the planned duration of car ownership; your single charge range requirement is greater than 145 miles and less than 315 miles, a Tesla model S or X with a price of £89k-£134k was your only option; and if your range requirement was greater than that there was nothing on the market whatsoever"

Saying ">150 miles" was simply me being succinct.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#178

Disclosure: im an automotive engine mechanic by trade. The Volt was a political nightmare. trade rags beat this car night and day for being a fake. but honestly its a damn good car. it was never going to see tesla style torque or mileage but the people driving it werent the whole foods kind of crowd anyway. the hybrid electric was borne out of the need to create something that couldnt be patent-struck by toyota, whos…

Since you mention patents...

How does the Hyundai Ioniq avoid Toyota's many hybrid drive patents, and get comparable mileage to the Prius? It's essentially the same size of car, same aerodynamic design, same engine size, etc.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#179
post #4

Even the Bolt that is replacing the Volt as their go-to-EV is still losing money per car sold (for now): > An unnamed source cited by Bloomberg News estimates that General Motors is expected to take a loss of between US$8,000 and US$9,000 per Bolt sold. A GM spokesman first declined to comment on the expected profitability.[20] Opel refuted that in December 2016 and states that GM has battery cell costs of $130/kWh,…

I wonder what will change between now and 2025 to enable profitability on Bolts?

I think they are counting on increased global economies of scale and market demand for li ion battery cells to drive down the cost of building the battery pack.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what will change between now and 2025 to enable profitability on Bolts?

Battery manufacturing scaling up, reducing the per kwh cost. Tesla is supposedly near $100/kWh at the cell level (which is the “holy grail” of EV profitability versus petrol vehicles) with Gigafactory 1 production. For comparison, VW wanted to build their own gigafactory and LG Chem is holding them hostage, threatening to not sell them the batteries they need for their EV inititiaves. Funny enough, VW is buying Tesla…

Along with the $100/kWh figure, increased energy density is a bit part of it as well. Li Ion 18650 cells used to top out at 2500mAh capacity, now Panasonic has the ncr18650ga cell which is rated for brief bursts to 30a discharge and is 3500mAh. Its density is about 250Wh per kilogram. The 20700 and 21700 cells are around 240Wh/kg.

The high amperage 18650 cells from LG and Panasonic mean that more are now able to be used in UAV applications, which previously could only use lipo batteries which top out at 177Wh/kg.

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