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Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

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Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#11

Post by bsder »

bodine30 wrote: post #3
felipemnoa wrote: post #2

>>Sales averaged less than 20,000 per year, not enough to sustain the costly undertaking. That to me sounds like a decent number. I guess they were selling them at a loss.

The one part of this that I feel like I understand is that if you buy this vehicle you've effectively signed up for twice the maintenance expense. While I feel this was a brilliant step in the direction of stop gap between gas and electric vehicles; I could never bring myself to pull the trigger.

> The one part of this that I feel like I understand is that if you buy this vehicle you've effectively signed up for twice the maintenance expense.

Then I would challenge your understanding.

That combustion motor 1) is not running anywhere near as much as a normal combustion engine, 2) has no mechanical transmission to go bad and 3) can be tuned for a much narrower range of RPMs than a normal engine.

Removing a mechanical transmission is huge. Everything else is upside.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#12

Post by jaytaylor »

dmix wrote: post #4

Even the Bolt that is replacing the Volt as their go-to-EV is still losing money per car sold (for now): > An unnamed source cited by Bloomberg News estimates that General Motors is expected to take a loss of between US$8,000 and US$9,000 per Bolt sold. A GM spokesman first declined to comment on the expected profitability.[20] Opel refuted that in December 2016 and states that GM has battery cell costs of $130/kWh,…

I wonder what will change between now and 2025 to enable profitability on Bolts?

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#13

Post by toomuchtodo »

organsnyder wrote: post #8
bodine30 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one part of this that I feel like I understand is that if you buy this vehicle you've effectively signed up for twice the maintenance expense. While I feel this was a brilliant step in the direction of stop gap between gas and electric vehicles; I could never bring myself to pull the trigger.

Why? Yes, there are more components than either a pure ICE or pure EV, but that doesn't translate to "twice the maintenance expense". In my experience (we own a Pacifica PHEV), a PHEV means less expense than a 100% ICE vehicle, but more than a pure EV.

Is it twice the expense? Probably not. Plug in hybrids are simply the worst of both worlds. You still need an engine and everything that goes with it, and your all electric range is anemic.

Why would I buy a Volt when I could buy a Model 3, a Leaf, or another EV? Electricity is cheap, no need for fuel or oil changes, and the driving experience is better (at least in Teslas with quick 0-60 times). You also are still eligible for the federal tax credit at its full amount for EVs where the manufacturer hasn’t sold 200k EVs yet.

The Volt died for the same reason the SR71 did: it was no longer needed.

Disclaimer: Tesla owner

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#14

Post by toomuchtodo »

jaytaylor wrote: post #12
dmix wrote: post #4

Even the Bolt that is replacing the Volt as their go-to-EV is still losing money per car sold (for now): > An unnamed source cited by Bloomberg News estimates that General Motors is expected to take a loss of between US$8,000 and US$9,000 per Bolt sold. A GM spokesman first declined to comment on the expected profitability.[20] Opel refuted that in December 2016 and states that GM has battery cell costs of $130/kWh,…

I wonder what will change between now and 2025 to enable profitability on Bolts?

Battery manufacturing scaling up, reducing the per kwh cost. Tesla is supposedly near $100/kWh at the cell level (which is the “holy grail” of EV profitability versus petrol vehicles) with Gigafactory 1 production.

For comparison, VW wanted to build their own gigafactory and LG Chem is holding them hostage, threatening to not sell them the batteries they need for their EV inititiaves. Funny enough, VW is buying Tesla PowerPacks for their Electrify America charging stations for peak demand shaving (the Electrify America brand is distinct from VW, as VW is not permitted to VW brand the charging stations as part of their dieselgate settlement).

Not a Musk fan, but him and JB Straubel knocked it out of the park with their foresight and strategy (build all the batteries we can, sell them in sexy cars).

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#15

Post by Tagbert »

bodine30 wrote: post #3
felipemnoa wrote: post #2

>>Sales averaged less than 20,000 per year, not enough to sustain the costly undertaking. That to me sounds like a decent number. I guess they were selling them at a loss.

The one part of this that I feel like I understand is that if you buy this vehicle you've effectively signed up for twice the maintenance expense. While I feel this was a brilliant step in the direction of stop gap between gas and electric vehicles; I could never bring myself to pull the trigger.

It doesn't work out to twice the maintenance. In the Volt, then gas engine is only used when you need to take a longer than normal trip. Even then, it is mainly a series generator that runs at a leisurely rev range to supply power to the EV system. It is not stressed the way a normal engine is.

Maintenance schedules for the engine are extended as a result. Oil changes, for instance, are automatically tracked and I only had to do one oil change after about 2 years.

I'm coming up on 3 years with a gen 2 Volt and it's been very reliable and more fun to drive than the ICE vehicle that it replaced.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#16

Post by CydeWeys »

bsder wrote: post #7

It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017 model. However, it was probably inevitable once batteries got good enough. Removing the combustion engine and replacing it with more batteries probably saves far too much money. The current problem I have with electric vehicles is simply that right now they are "5 ye…

Realistically speaking, how important is it that a car last 20 years? If it only lasts 10 years, which current EVs seem on track for, so what? You're not actually out that much on an annualized basis. And don't forget that years 11 through 20 on an ICE car are quite a bit more expensive maintenance-wise.

Depending on how much you drive, two electric cars over 20 years might well be cheaper than one gasoline car lasting that long.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#17

Post by dsfyu404ed »

bsder wrote: post #7

It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017 model. However, it was probably inevitable once batteries got good enough. Removing the combustion engine and replacing it with more batteries probably saves far too much money. The current problem I have with electric vehicles is simply that right now they are "5 ye…

"customers prefer SUVs" means "customers prefer lifted station wagons branded as SUVs"

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#18

Post by avs733 »

>It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017 model.

Completely agree. I leased a first gen and am now leasing a second gen volt. I'm actually considering buying my current car at the end of the lease. As a bike commuter, it is my only vehicle, which is why I went the hybrid rather than full electric route.

The first gen I got rid of at the first opportunity. The car did it's job but the shifter physical design was moronic and the fit and finish was so bad that I actually cut myself on a piece of the interior plastic one day.

The 2nd gen is 'just a car' a nice car actually. Excepting a maintenance screwup by a dealer I have had zero - zero - maintenance issues with the second gen. Because I don't ever have to charge it, and don't drive it much, I can usually charge it for free (I'm an apartment dweller). I spend about 80% of the miles on electric. I think I've bought two tanks of gas in six months.

Funny story...a friend of mine's mother was actually the lead systems engineer on gen one. I met her at a graduation party and we had about a 3 hr long engineering nerd out over the 1st gen. I asked about a billion 'why did you/why didn't you' questions and was amazed at how many good ideas were left on the table.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#19

Post by justinph »

bodine30 wrote: post #3
felipemnoa wrote: post #2

>>Sales averaged less than 20,000 per year, not enough to sustain the costly undertaking. That to me sounds like a decent number. I guess they were selling them at a loss.

The one part of this that I feel like I understand is that if you buy this vehicle you've effectively signed up for twice the maintenance expense. While I feel this was a brilliant step in the direction of stop gap between gas and electric vehicles; I could never bring myself to pull the trigger.

The Volt has proven to be pretty reliable, as far as Chevys go. The Prius is widely regarded as the most reliable car you can buy. So, while it might seem logical that the more complex car would be more troublesome, it doesn't play out that way.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#20

Post by cmrdporcupine »

bodine30 wrote: post #3
felipemnoa wrote: post #2

>>Sales averaged less than 20,000 per year, not enough to sustain the costly undertaking. That to me sounds like a decent number. I guess they were selling them at a loss.

The one part of this that I feel like I understand is that if you buy this vehicle you've effectively signed up for twice the maintenance expense. While I feel this was a brilliant step in the direction of stop gap between gas and electric vehicles; I could never bring myself to pull the trigger.

At >50,000km on my Volt and have had to do no maintenance other than changing back and forth between winter and summer tires.

No oil changes, no fluids, nothing. Averaging 1.2l/100km

You're simply wrong.

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