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Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

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Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#131

Post by digisign »

evv wrote: post #111

Kind of a fucking shame. As individuals, we are generally quite powerless in the climate crisis. The world is being ruined by companies and governments that we generally cannot influence. The power we retain: how we spend our money. Electric vehicles offer perhaps the most significant opportunity for the average consumer to improve the carbon emission status-quo. Regardless of the ecological impact, I've quickly come…

I work remotely, and leaf blowers have become the bane of my existence. Dirtier and noisier than ten modern cars. They're illegal here, but the city will not enforce.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#132

Post by fock »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #17
bsder wrote: post #7

It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017 model. However, it was probably inevitable once batteries got good enough. Removing the combustion engine and replacing it with more batteries probably saves far too much money. The current problem I have with electric vehicles is simply that right now they are "5 ye…

"customers prefer SUVs" means "customers prefer lifted station wagons branded as SUVs"

And apparently consumers also want to pay higher upkeep for that lift... Every SUV I looked at consumes about 10-15% more gas than the equivalent station wagon - this is bonkers, even when looking at pure economics.

But hey, it's a car, it gives you the freedom to roam wherever you want... As long as someone paved the road and you have the cash to pay the fuel bills (which you arguably have to work for) - what a nice, free and independent life!

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#133

Post by evv »

door5 wrote: post #120
evv wrote: post #111

Kind of a fucking shame. As individuals, we are generally quite powerless in the climate crisis. The world is being ruined by companies and governments that we generally cannot influence. The power we retain: how we spend our money. Electric vehicles offer perhaps the most significant opportunity for the average consumer to improve the carbon emission status-quo. Regardless of the ecological impact, I've quickly come…

> Electric vehicles offer perhaps the most significant opportunity for the average consumer to improve the carbon emission status-quo Public transit. Electric cars hardly put a dent in climate change. We need higher density cities, less sprawl, more robust public transit, and a nationwide high speed rail network. These all require political will, policy change and public money -- no private company will do this. > As…

Political change is slow and the climate is changing fast. You can't just undo urban sprawl or turn on public transit infrastructure. We need widespread adoption of (PH)EVs in addition to the improvements you mention.

But you're correct that we do have the power to influence politics. Thanks to our broken democracy, the power to decide the next US president lies with a rather small number of voters: those in swing states who aren't already firmly decided. Maybe we can figure out how to identify and persuade these people to vote for the candidates that best protect their interests. Can you think of any such hacks that can compete with FB and Twitter misinformation campaigns?

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#134

Post by benj111 »

jdietrich wrote: post #62
jaytaylor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what will change between now and 2025 to enable profitability on Bolts?

See page 42 of the source report. UBS and Munro predict a 33% reduction in battery costs due to broader industry pricing trends, with a further reduction of 10-25% on powertrain components due to economies of scale and technology improvements. The report argues that the Bolt is already profitable on a contribution basis (sale price - cost of goods sold), meaning that GM make money on every Bolt they sell. What makes…

If it isn't profitable due to R & D costs, who's complaining it isn't profitable?

I would expect a completely new product category to have higher development costs, I'm not sure its reasonable to shoulder the first fruits of that R & D with all the costs. Especially as this may well literally be the future of the company.

So then the question becomes, is someone setting the Bolt up to fail? Trying to make it look bad against Tesla? Or what?

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#135

Post by shittyadmin »

door5 wrote: post #120
evv wrote: post #111

Kind of a fucking shame. As individuals, we are generally quite powerless in the climate crisis. The world is being ruined by companies and governments that we generally cannot influence. The power we retain: how we spend our money. Electric vehicles offer perhaps the most significant opportunity for the average consumer to improve the carbon emission status-quo. Regardless of the ecological impact, I've quickly come…

> Electric vehicles offer perhaps the most significant opportunity for the average consumer to improve the carbon emission status-quo Public transit. Electric cars hardly put a dent in climate change. We need higher density cities, less sprawl, more robust public transit, and a nationwide high speed rail network. These all require political will, policy change and public money -- no private company will do this. > As…

> less sprawl

> no private company will do this.

Many cities are blocking developers from buying up homes in old neighborhoods to build apartments and condos which could house far more people closer to their jobs. Often this boils down to NIMBYs lobbying city councils while those who would buy said apartments aren't exactly in a place to do that.

There's a lot of low hanging fruit like this where trivial policy fixes could go a long way without the political challenges of massive public spending, but we can't even get these set up properly. A simple shift from allowing developers to build more suburbs to more apartments and condos would do a lot of good in many cities.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#136

Post by dave7 »

shawnz wrote: post #108
hakfoo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lost route IMO was modular batteries. Say your Model S has a bank replacable modules instead of a single monolith. These can be pulled and swapped with pre-charged cells in minutes. This also allows older packs to be pulled from circulation, removing the fear of aging batteries causing depreciation on the vehicle.

Why would you ever not want to swap the whole battery? They've demonstrated that a whole battery swap can be done in minutes. And the whole battery discharges/ages at the same rate, so there'd be no point in only swapping some of the modules.

It's also quite unsafe to run lithium ion batteries in series with different levels of wear / charge state, the old ones can easily be pushed too hard and fail (spectacularly).

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#137

Post by markkanof »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #13
organsnyder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Yes, there are more components than either a pure ICE or pure EV, but that doesn't translate to "twice the maintenance expense". In my experience (we own a Pacifica PHEV), a PHEV means less expense than a 100% ICE vehicle, but more than a pure EV.

Is it twice the expense? Probably not. Plug in hybrids are simply the worst of both worlds. You still need an engine and everything that goes with it, and your all electric range is anemic. Why would I buy a Volt when I could buy a Model 3, a Leaf, or another EV? Electricity is cheap, no need for fuel or oil changes, and the driving experience is better (at least in Teslas with quick 0-60 times). You also are still e…

Really depends on your perspective. To me a plug in hybrid seems like the best of both worlds. Enough range to do my daily commute all electric, but the ability to go on a longer road trip without having to worry about where a charging station is located.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#138

Post by masonic »

bit_logic wrote: post #54

This was really shortsighted. PHEV is currently the best technology. I think the push for full EV is premature for mass market. It works for niche cases like Tesla, but not something that can be truly mainstream. With current battery tech and infrastructure, EV is a 50 mile technology. It has nothing to do with battery tech itself, doesn't matter how light or dense the battery is. The limit is infrastructure. 50 mile…

  EV is a 50 mile technology
Sssshhhh, don't tell Tesla or Hyundai that.

PHEV is a solution looking for a problem. You only add a little bit more range versus a plain ICE, and that's at the expense of lugging around an extra motor and battery array. The whole carpool lane eligibility for hybrids is a crutch and the only selling distinction for PHEVs. (If you're driving far enough for a carpool lane to even matter, you're going beyond your battery range on the trip... so you're ultimately releasing as much carbon.)

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#139

Post by nimbius »

Disclosure: im an automotive engine mechanic by trade.

The Volt was a political nightmare. trade rags beat this car night and day for being a fake. but honestly its a damn good car. it was never going to see tesla style torque or mileage but the people driving it werent the whole foods kind of crowd anyway.

the hybrid electric was borne out of the need to create something that couldnt be patent-struck by toyota, whos hybrid synergy drive is basically the entire hybrid market outside of Komatsu/Caterpillar these days. electric motor final drives until the engine kicks in to drive the electric motors also allowed them to avoid the honda tax on motors in the transmission that assisted the drive inline.

the engine drive was crucified by its owners for ever starting. in-town drivers would be well under the range of the vehicles batteries, yet routinely traded the car in or returned it when the engine kicked on. What they didnt understand is that this was done to prevent stale fuel or cycling problems in cold weather. The ECU was smart enough to maintain the engine even when you didnt need it.

If you find one of these used and youre into hybrid (mostly) electric drives, id recommend it. it has a planted and firm drive, similar to a windstar minivan but without the body roll.

The stereo is also surprisingly overpowered for something like this as it borrows heavily from Fords Shaker platform (harmon kardon.)

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#140

Post by usrusr »

lrem wrote: post #116
evv wrote: post #111

Kind of a fucking shame. As individuals, we are generally quite powerless in the climate crisis. The world is being ruined by companies and governments that we generally cannot influence. The power we retain: how we spend our money. Electric vehicles offer perhaps the most significant opportunity for the average consumer to improve the carbon emission status-quo. Regardless of the ecological impact, I've quickly come…

According to my neighbour it is no problem to drive a Tesla 2700km from Switzerland to Finland, through Germany, Czechia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.

Just don't pat yourself on the back too hard for that. That route takes you through some of the most CO2-intensive electricity grids. A Tesla charged in Poland is a much dirtier car than a Tesla charged in California or Switzerland.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that making that trip is a terrible thing to do. I do worse things myself, e.g. traveling by plane. We all have the option of instantly reducing or CO2 footprint to that of our bodies decomposing but none of us is willing to go that far.

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