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America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

nytimes.com

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Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#411

Post by ip26 »

gambler wrote: post #353
crispyambulance wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A stint of physical labor is certainly a valuable experience, I long for it too, but it DOES eventually break the body if it is done year after year for decades. I suspect that years of meaningless work just shuffling money around for wealthy people and institutions has a similar effect on the psyche, even if it is obscenely compensated.

Physical work shouldn't break your body if you work within reasonable limits of exertion. Also, sitting all day does breaks your body.

I've concluded when people say "break your body", they usually refer to the slowly accumulating string of little slip-ups. You turn the wrench too hard and bash your knuckle. You grab something that was still too hot. You drop something on your foot. You lift something the wrong way and pull something. No one slip-up is a real big deal, but you can't help but make a few, and they slowly add up.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#412

Post by QualityReboot »

_fq4v wrote: post #402
QualityReboot wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have pretty much no exposure to that world, and about half the comments here seem to agree with you, but I still don't understand. I can appreciate that you might need a wardrobe with nice suits, a respectable looking car, and a few stories about places you've been and things you've done. It doesn't seem like it would super hard to craft that image without spending a lot of money. How'd you get into the management…

> How'd you get into the management consulting world? Is there a 500k/yr salary just waiting for me if I fake like I'm a Wall St guy from the 80s? Straight from undergrad. I went to a tech-focused school, majored in math and CS, and did a financial course series as a requirement for a scholarship. That, and I guess I'm a good interviewer / have people skills? > I can appreciate that you might need a wardrobe with nic…

That's fascinating. I had no idea about the 'classes' thing.

I wonder if there's an alternate track for someone already established in another field. Could an established software developer somehow transition to getting a "big bucks" management position? Or does it all flow through that class system, and if you didn't enter at the bottom, you're not able to get to the top?

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#413

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

ForHackernews wrote: post #408
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in that case, since the universe itself is ultimately doomed, why not delude ourselves into believing that there is, in fact, meaning in our lives so that the remainder of our life isn't spent in misery? I submit that the "fake" subjective meaning and some "real" objective meaning are indistinguishable.

> why not delude ourselves into believing that there is, in fact, meaning in our lives so that the remainder of our life isn't spent in misery? I believe I already stipulated to religious belief as a way out of this quandary.

I contest the use of 'religion' to refer to 'subjective meaning' on the grounds that it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#414

Post by joncrane »

QualityReboot wrote: post #64

I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life. I think the problem for most workers is the lifetime of toil, not the meaninglessness of the work. I'd happily dig ditches for 8-12 hours a day for 3 years if I knew I was completely financially independent with millions in the bank that. Actually, I'd rather do that…

In addition to the other answers, one of the reasons animals strive is to attract a mate.

I think a lot of people marry someone who did so with an understanding that the gravy train continues indefinitely.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#415

Post by pmoriarty »

mancerayder wrote: post #123
QualityReboot wrote: post #64

I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life. I think the problem for most workers is the lifetime of toil, not the meaninglessness of the work. I'd happily dig ditches for 8-12 hours a day for 3 years if I knew I was completely financially independent with millions in the bank that. Actually, I'd rather do that…

I'm 100% in agreement, and am trying to pursue that on a payscale that's fractions of what's described. I think the problem is the balancing act between "live now" and "save for living later." I think I have a healthy balance, particularly in not denying myself decent food and lifestyle despite the costs. That said, I'm moderate in almost every other way (and I don't have a car, or buy expensive clothing, etc.) At on…

"Maybe this should be called "lifestyle inflation." Through social pressure, greed, trendiness, or perhaps stupidity, people piss all their money away and need more."

There's also a lack of education teaching people to value and strive for something beyond material goods, fashion, and whatever the mainstream media happen to be hyping at the moment.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#416

Post by CompelTechnic »

zaccus wrote: post #393
CompelTechnic wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

check firecalc.com for historical likelihood of portfolio success, given a starting nest egg and an annual withdrawal rate. The 4% withdrawal rate mentioned above is very likely to succeed for an indefinite period, and 3% is essentially impossible. This is all assuming 85% US equities and 15% bonds, and that the future looks vaguely like the past 150 years. Despite all the skepticism above, the 4% claims are true. No…

85% in equities during retirement is a bad idea.

The longer the duration, the more it is a good idea to be heavy in equities. This can be teased out of the data on firecalc.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#417

Post by joncrane »

axaxs wrote: post #296
scruple wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have, yes. I've also framed homes, roofed homes, and water proofed basements. I spent some time landscaping. I've held a variety of manual labor jobs, from working fields to construction to warehouses and factory floors to the military. Today, I'm a team lead and senior software engineer. I'd also rather be outside again all day, working with and alongside people, physically and towards goals we can visualize, doin…

Almost in the -exact- same boat, as if I could have written this comment myself. My favorite job, by far, was landscaping. Being outside all day, getting sun and exercise, and seeing your completed project were all very rewarding/valuable. I was in great shape, left work at work, and had no problem sleeping at night. It just doesn't pay well. I find working at computers all day rather depressing, at times pointless,…

The closest thing to a middle ground I can think of is FIRE-ing and going back to work as a landscaper, or a carpenter, or whatever. You can not "need" to work financially, but still have to/want to have a job. The key is it can be any low or even non-paying job that you want.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#418

Post by eli_gottlieb »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #344
seem_2211 wrote: post #255

I think we're focusing on the wrong thing here (broadly), which is mocking the guy making $1.2m a year. Yes, that's a lot of money, and almost all of us (myself included) struggle to see how to spend that money. But at the same time, I feel some empathy for that guy - he's increased his expenses proportionally and he feels trapped doing something he doesn't enjoy with no end in sight. I know I've moved my expenses up…

"Lifestyle inflation" doesn't necessarily just mean nice vacations and fancy cars - education expenses for children are often a huge part of it. In the major coastal metros, living in a great school district or paying for an equivalent-quality private school is a tremendous expense. Parents also feel pressure to save enough to send their children to the best college or university that they can get into, which can be…

>I think there's a fair case that these parents are locked in a society-wide arms race: everyone would be better off if the kids were under less pressure to get the "best" education credentials possible, but almost everyone thinks they would be worse off if they unilaterally "disarmed".

That sounds like the case Elizabeth Warren made in "The Two Income Trap".

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#419

Post by forrestthewoods »

zaccus wrote: post #389
forrestthewoods wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have something left over each year to reinvest. Right. So my question is how much can you withdraw to indefinitely draw the same inflation adjusted value?

I'm talking about a fixed income, like bond dividends, annuities, etc. It doesn't adjust for inflation; that's a separate problem. Just saying that if you can get a 4% return on 2.5MM, which is on the high side of realistic, that's a 100k indefinite fixed income.

> It doesn't adjust for inflation; that's a separate problem.

It’s my only question.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#420

Post by arcticbull »

Spooky23 wrote: post #172
madrox wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve thought about this...especially among the very wealthy. Why continue to be a high pressure CEO when you basically never have to work again? My hypothesis is that most very high paying roles are incentive-based, and incentives can be addicting: meet a goal, get a million dollar dopamine hit. I don’t think these people hate their jobs as much as they might say they do.

It's more than that. People need purpose. That's why things like UBI are a pipe-dream. Any Fortune-500 executive could live a life of leisure with 2-3 years of planning. They tend to not make that choice.

This is exactly why UBI works -- people need a purpose. The Canadian study I'm thinking of showed the only people who left the workforce left to pursue liberal arts or to be stay-at-home parents. UBI lifts up the bottom line in a society to a level we should all deem acceptable and freeing them to continue to find their purpose.
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