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America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

nytimes.com

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Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#401

Post by BucketSort »

aynsof wrote: post #316
BucketSort wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said that because the parent comment said "I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life." They don't have those passions in life per say and fill that void with work and other things. You are actually echoing what I'm saying in your own way. Also, I like how people bring up gardening sometimes when passion is d…

When I think of 'passion', I think of creating things, making things better, doing something that can bring me into a state of flow. I'm not an avid gardener, but I can absolutely see how gardening would tick those boxes for someone who was.

You're right. My father was a gardener, so I should have known better than to feel that way. I saw him prepare the soil, sow the seeds, and give the plants the support they needed to thrive over time. Thinking about the process of gardening makes me understand how it could be a passion. What about the classes of passion? Can gardening be put on the same level as art? Why or why not? They certainly at least have a different pace about them. A painter can work quickly, but a gardener must have such patience. Obviously a painter also must have patience with the process as well. I would like to think of this in a more mathematical way. This idea that in the space of gardening there are certain operations and objects that are distinct from, let's say, the domain of music. When you look at it that way, what is the character of the constructive mathematics being done in these spaces? This is now apparently liberal arts news.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#402

Post by _fq4v »

QualityReboot wrote: post #373
_fq4v wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ding ding ding. In my brief foray in management consulting at a big three firm, both the company (helped by the credit card companies) sought to create a culture of excess. My colleagues were way overleveraged -- vacations weekly in Cancun, etc. This created dependence on the company, and ultimately intelligent workers who had no choice. By the time they made actual money (5-6 years), their expenses would way exceed…

I have pretty much no exposure to that world, and about half the comments here seem to agree with you, but I still don't understand. I can appreciate that you might need a wardrobe with nice suits, a respectable looking car, and a few stories about places you've been and things you've done. It doesn't seem like it would super hard to craft that image without spending a lot of money. How'd you get into the management…

> How'd you get into the management consulting world? Is there a 500k/yr salary just waiting for me if I fake like I'm a Wall St guy from the 80s?

Straight from undergrad. I went to a tech-focused school, majored in math and CS, and did a financial course series as a requirement for a scholarship. That, and I guess I'm a good interviewer / have people skills?

> I can appreciate that you might need a wardrobe with nice suits, a respectable looking car, and a few stories about places you've been and things you've done. It doesn't seem like it would super hard to craft that image without spending a lot of money.

This is not difficult. I wore mostly hand me downs I had tailored. Worked in a big city, so lack of car was not a problem. I also had my fair share of 'stories' (mainly because being student body president at my college exposed me to a world of very rich people).

The difficult part is that you enter in 'classes'. You and thirty other people who just graduated start at the same time, and you are put through the grinder together. There is an expectation you do all your socializing in this group. For me, part of the problem was that I was engaged and planning our wedding, so I had to take time off to do that and not partake. The group would collectively decide to do things every single weekend. If you did not attend, you were ostracized. These were not things like playing board games together or even clubbing (although there was a lot of clubbing). These were things like, 'so and so has a birthday, let's go to Cabo!' or 'let's rent a boat' or 'let's rent a mansion'. These things cost a lot of money, and the company does not pay. However, if you do not invest in maintaining these relationships, you will face issues later on.

The company encourages this by throwing extravagant parties every few months. And I really mean extravagant.

For example, before we accepted the offer, we were all flown out for a weekend filled with free booze, clubs, etc. We were all 'beautiful people' so to speak (although, I personally think I was the ugliest person there). The company provides enough of an exposure to a lifestyle that it whets the appetites of status-seeking 22 year olds, who then seek to accomplish the same 'epicness' on the non-company-sponsored weekends.

> Is there a 500k/yr salary just waiting for me if I fake like I'm a Wall St guy from the 80s?

No. The salary is piss poor. Starting undergrads in 2014 made $75k/year in San Francisco at my firm. The big bucks only roll in after you've been there for many years (and thus have that large debt hanging on your neck).

As my first manager said, "you can wait until you're 30 to have a family and free time." She told me that the week before I quit.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#403

Post by ijpoijpoihpiuoh »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #392
ijpoijpoihpiuoh wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a good neighborhood, your only risk is that you will go to a very good school instead of a great one. Look, it's not that I don't have any sympathy. My household makes about as much as this guy and live in a similar situation, although apparently I like my job much more. Doesn't mean my life is without problems. Doesn't mean I don't get sad sometimes. But there are ways to mitigate the downside we have access to w…

Yeah, I'm not claiming that the guy is right, and I'm certainly not aiming to debate or criticize your personal choices. I'm just aiming to describe this attitude that seems to be really common in the NYC area, and which explains why many parents feel their choices are constrained.

I absolutely agree that this attitude exists, and it really is a shame, because a lot of people are limiting themselves from achieving real happiness.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#404

Post by arbol »

raverbashing wrote: post #298
seem_2211 wrote: post #255

I think we're focusing on the wrong thing here (broadly), which is mocking the guy making $1.2m a year. Yes, that's a lot of money, and almost all of us (myself included) struggle to see how to spend that money. But at the same time, I feel some empathy for that guy - he's increased his expenses proportionally and he feels trapped doing something he doesn't enjoy with no end in sight. I know I've moved my expenses up…

Lifestyle inflation is a very easy trap to fall into and hard to get out of. Suddenly you feel like you have to have a fancy car, to live in a fancy neighborhood and get a $5 soy detox tea every morning and $300 a month crossfit/hot yoga/dance pilates classes or something like that

You're just describing weak willed people.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#405

Post by tathougies »

subjectHarold wrote: post #382
QualityReboot wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have pretty much no exposure to that world, and about half the comments here seem to agree with you, but I still don't understand. I can appreciate that you might need a wardrobe with nice suits, a respectable looking car, and a few stories about places you've been and things you've done. It doesn't seem like it would super hard to craft that image without spending a lot of money. How'd you get into the management…

I have quite a few friends who ended up doing this. It isn't easy at all. And if you are just in it for the money, you probably wouldn't get an entry-level position. That probably sounds slightly crazy but how many people actually do end up leaving and doing something else? Not many. They end up in those jobs because they want the lifestyle, the status, and being "the guy" is critical to their self-image. Faking it w…

> Not because they win and decide they have had enough...no-one

I was lucky in that I had my CS qualifications. I left 6 months in, and got a better paying job. Only gave them a weeks notice.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#406

Post by lapnitnelav »

dragonwriter wrote: post #399
lapnitnelav wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been killing gods since the dawn of times. The word religion itself originally was all about worshiping a god. Now everyone can define "God" how they want and follow whatever the scriptures advise, but let's not fool ourselves here, it's always been about power / control.

> The word religion itself originally was all about worshiping a god. Not really, it was specifically about life under monastic vows (which, where it was coined, involved worship of the Christian God, but that wasn't the feature “religion” referred to, but instead the life bound by vows.) In fact, the Catholic Church still used the adjective and noin “religious” in that sense, while it uses “religion” in the newer mo…

Yeah but if you dig deeper [0], original latin word : "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods; conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation; fear of the gods; divine service, religious observance; a religion, a faith, a mode of worship, cult; sanctity, holiness"

https://www.etymonline.com/word/religion

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#407

Post by arbol »

BucketSort wrote: post #401
aynsof wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think of 'passion', I think of creating things, making things better, doing something that can bring me into a state of flow. I'm not an avid gardener, but I can absolutely see how gardening would tick those boxes for someone who was.

You're right. My father was a gardener, so I should have known better than to feel that way. I saw him prepare the soil, sow the seeds, and give the plants the support they needed to thrive over time. Thinking about the process of gardening makes me understand how it could be a passion. What about the classes of passion? Can gardening be put on the same level as art? Why or why not? They certainly at least have a dif…

Seeing seeds spring up that you sowed yourself is exhilarating.

Almost anything can be approached in an artistic manner and therefore considered art.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#408

Post by ForHackernews »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #69
ForHackernews wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could anything mean anything when pretty soon (in a cosmological sense) there won't be any such thing as a mind in which meaning could exist?

Well in that case, since the universe itself is ultimately doomed, why not delude ourselves into believing that there is, in fact, meaning in our lives so that the remainder of our life isn't spent in misery? I submit that the "fake" subjective meaning and some "real" objective meaning are indistinguishable.

> why not delude ourselves into believing that there is, in fact, meaning in our lives so that the remainder of our life isn't spent in misery?

I believe I already stipulated to religious belief as a way out of this quandary.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#409

Post by refurb »

scottnyc wrote: post #313
kurthr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah... I literally don't buy it. High Cost of Living city has nothing to do with needing $500k/yr in earnings (post tax). What kind of mortgage and car do you have that? Simple answer... that's a $10M house or a $2M car or half of each of those. Besides the fact that if you're earning $1.2M salary, you're taking home other bonus/stock that are comparable. Getting locked into this sort of lifestyle is a choice not dr…

Article says friend is in Manhattan and earned (i.e. total comp) $1.2mm. Very unusual for anyone in finance to have that high a salary short of being a CEO earning $10mm+. Suppose he lives on the UWS in a 2000 square foot 3-4 bedroom condo which he bought for $4mm and has a $3mm mortgage. With a 30year fixed mortgage, that's maybe $180k a year. Don't forget the $60+k a year in condo fees and taxes. Throw in anywhere…

$1.2M total comp is not that unusual in finance if you've been in a number of years[1].

[1]https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/salary/investment-banking-co...

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#410

Post by bdamm »

HashHishBang wrote: post #204
bdamm wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's increasingly secular right now. But religions grow and shrink like fashions and a new clutch may rise to fill the evident vacuum.

Sure it's possible but one can hope we've grown beyond the majority needing a crutch to get through life.

It may not be a crutch at all, but an essential part of human society. That's not the same as to say we need excessive dogma, churches funding super-PACs, DMCA wielding lawyers on staff, or silent code for dealing with rapist priests. We do need community, guidance, and a safe place to seek help when we're in trouble. Surely we can let some religions go by the wayside, and perhaps embrace alternatives that aren't in conflict with science or the contemporary rule of law.
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