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America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

nytimes.com

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Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#251

Post by Gpetrium »

I think a lot of people tend to see the issue from a lower-middle class perspective (economically speaking), this makes it very difficult to understand some of the different issues that can occur at that level. It is similar to someone living in a less developed nation looking at the things most people in the developed world sees as a necessity.

People make trade-offs, in some cases the perceived cost of making less money is: * Later retirement * Longer commute * Smaller house * Lower quality of life for the kids (no/limited private school, extracurricular, etc) * Limited network (which can mean power) * Decreased prestige in society (yes, society still see money as prestige) * Lower quality vacation * Less 'mating' options * Ability to provide to extend family & friends * Exchanging a stable income

People are afraid of change, "what if the lower wage means losing my wife?" "what if I realize that my new job wasn't what I hyped it to be and I can't get back to what I used to do?" The more you have (money in this case), the more you stand to lose.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#252

Post by jackschultz »

QualityReboot wrote: post #64

I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life. I think the problem for most workers is the lifetime of toil, not the meaninglessness of the work. I'd happily dig ditches for 8-12 hours a day for 3 years if I knew I was completely financially independent with millions in the bank that. Actually, I'd rather do that…

People say these things all the time, but I always wonder how you'd actually feel if you did the 3-5 year work and saved that 3-5 million you earned. My guess is with most people, you get that 3-5 million and you're going to want more. I'm not saying you specifically, but people in general.

And a clarification, I'm not thinking it'd be because you're around wealthier people which would make you want to spend more to compare to them, but rather having more security, if your passion requires more money.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#253

Post by lovecg »

momentmaker wrote: post #202
QualityReboot wrote: post #64

I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life. I think the problem for most workers is the lifetime of toil, not the meaninglessness of the work. I'd happily dig ditches for 8-12 hours a day for 3 years if I knew I was completely financially independent with millions in the bank that. Actually, I'd rather do that…

I read somewhere about to really torture a prisoner in the Galog you instruct the prisoner to just keep digging a hole and then have him fill it back up again. Continue this to break thoroughly break him down. This is done without giving him any particular reason why he is doing it for...

Reminds me of “Cool Hand Luke”.

Boss Paul: That ditch is Boss Kean's ditch. And I told him that dirt in it's your dirt. What's your dirt doin' in his ditch? Luke: I don't know, Boss. Boss Paul: You better get in there and get it out, boy.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#254

Post by scottlocklin »

leroy_masochist wrote: post #238
mrfredward wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The median income for NYC is $57,000. Surely 10X what a typical person makes is enough for a family to get by, it's just not enough for the lifestyle they want. Source: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/newyorkcitynewy...

You are correct, but if this guy's an HBS alum pulling in 7 figures on the buy side, then he and his family are living the Upper East Side lifestyle which means: Private school tuition - $50k/kid/year Additional activities such as tutoring, sports, etc - $10-20k/kid/year Mortgages+fees or rent for a 1,500 square foot apartment in a doorman building in East 80's - $75,000-150,000/year Mortgage or rent for country home…

> Nobody's forcing him to ...

I dunno, his wife did laugh at his startup job offer and divorce is expensive. Not that I feel bad for the guy, but it is often something like that.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#255

Post by seem_2211 »

I think we're focusing on the wrong thing here (broadly), which is mocking the guy making $1.2m a year. Yes, that's a lot of money, and almost all of us (myself included) struggle to see how to spend that money. But at the same time, I feel some empathy for that guy - he's increased his expenses proportionally and he feels trapped doing something he doesn't enjoy with no end in sight. I know I've moved my expenses up and to the right since graduating college and starting a professional job.

But all of this is a distraction - at the end of the article, the author speaks about the people who are happy and satisfied in their careers - and broadly it seems like people who have autonomy and a sense of purpose in what they do. I run a small business and broadly enjoy working, so things like the Financial Independence movement don't really make sense to me. More money, less money - this is not the crux of the issue. Engagement and autonomy are some of the keys to a fulfilling work life.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#256

Post by throwaway-1283 »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #183
zhobbs wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"According to Census data, the median household income in Palo Alto is $137,000 a year, while the US average is $57,600" from: https://www.cnet.com/news/silicon-valley-middle-class-earns-...

I think this type of Census data understates household incomes. I am not exactly sure why, but Atherton comes in at about 400k a year per household. That is a lot, but doesn't seem like a lot for Atherton.

What you put on your tax return every year doesn't really reflect your actual wealth. Even in tech most people top out at ~$200k-$250k base salaries but you may vest and accumulate millions in stock RSUs that you don't sell in a given year.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#257

Post by cryptica »

throwaway-1283 wrote: post #240
cryptica wrote: post #235

>> If you spend 12 hours a day doing work you hate, at some point it doesn’t matter what your paycheck says Bullshit. If someone earns $1.2 million per year, they can retire after 2 or 3 years. They have no right to complain. They're weak. $1.2 million is the definition of eternal happiness. If you earn that, whatever emotion you feel in your life is called happiness. This emotion which their greedy brains interpret…

You're assuming not working/retirement = happiness, which is wrong.

It is pure happiness.

I'm a curious person and I have a pretty intellectually stimulating job right now (so I understand the appeal) but heck; for $1.2 million per year, I would sit and stare at a blank wall every day for 5 years straight. I can even picture myself after finishing a hard day of hardcore wall-staring, I'd go home with a huge smile on my face. It would be like reliving the best day of my life over and over again for 5 years straight.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#258

Post by projectramo »

scarmig wrote: post #227
projectramo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet its mostly taxes and real estate. City + State + Federal taxes are around 50%. So $600k. Private School per kid is $50k. Assume two kids so about $100k. Okay, now a 4 bedroom apartment in NYC is like $25k/month (on Zillow, eyeballing it), or about $300k/year. You're down to $100k-$200k for food, vacations, clothes, cars etc.

> You're down to $100k-$200k for food, vacations, clothes, cars etc. Oh, the humanity.

You're doing fine, but at $600k, you'd be taking home $300k, and then its all going on rent unless you downsize drastically and move out of private school etc.

I'm just explaining why the move would feel tough for a family.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#259

Post by number-sequence »

cryptica wrote: post #235

>> If you spend 12 hours a day doing work you hate, at some point it doesn’t matter what your paycheck says Bullshit. If someone earns $1.2 million per year, they can retire after 2 or 3 years. They have no right to complain. They're weak. $1.2 million is the definition of eternal happiness. If you earn that, whatever emotion you feel in your life is called happiness. This emotion which their greedy brains interpret…

can you clarify if this is sarcastic?

i actually can’t tell if you’re 1. sarcastic 2. trolling 3. honestly believe this 4. engaging in self deception to rationalize your own behavior

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#260

Post by nemo44x »

dilyevsky wrote: post #52
uptown wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What world are they living in where startups are paying $500-$600k?

If “startup” means “pre IPO” then there quite a few places in town that go up to this for very senior roles.

I think a lot of people here don't realize how lucrative the sales roles in tech companies are - if you're good at it. Top sales reps often make more than than top level managers.

I estimate the top sales people are the highest compensated people in a company. It is true meritocracy, however. You are judged on a single metric more or less and the bottom of the group is dismissed without second thought.

You can make a great living on the engineer side of the operation and it's steady but you'll never see the highs of the top sales people even when you're at a point with stock and salary being many hundreds of thousands.

It's not a life for me but I have nothing but respect for the effort, time and relationship building great sales people put in. It's a hard, competitive ladder but if you make it work you'll hit high 6 figures and at times 7 figures for many years.

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