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Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

reuters.com

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Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#191

Post by louisswiss »

pluma wrote: post #164
louisswiss wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A helpful reminder that Britain leaving the EU and Britain getting a 'deal' with the EU are two separate (but related) events. Britain triggered Article 50 and decided to leave the EU. There's no deal necessary. From the EU's point of view (and a legal one), this isn't a negotiation, just a (sometimes less clearly defined) bureaucratic procedure. There is of course the question of what Britain's relationship to the E…

Really it seems like Ireland and Spain are the most interested parties when it comes to negotiating with post-EU Britain. And if you look at UK land borders it should be obvious why that is. This is what's most frustrating about Brexiters complaining about the "unreasonable" offer by the EU. It's not "the EU" imposing those terms, it's the interested parties.

I'm by no means an expert, but I wonder if it isn't actually the 'uninterested' EU parties who are turning this into a 'bad' deal for the UK.

After all, with little to lose personally from a poor UK-EU trading deal, those uninterested parties have a much stronger incentive to push for other things they find important (such as freedom of movement).

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#192

Post by blibble »

louisswiss wrote: post #187
blibble wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Setting aside the fact that the UK has a veto over pretty much any important EU decision... this is not a fact at all, Lisbon removed the veto from nearly every area, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_E...

Pretty much all of the important stuff is still covered ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_E... ) To argue otherwise would be akin to arguing that the UK parliament isn't sovereign because local councils can make some local decisions independently. EDIT (To reply to the comment below): If you read the information in the link posted, it's obvious that the important decisions still require una…

that very much depends on your definition of "important"

personally I would call employment, business, immigration, social security, criminal law, and half a dozen things listed there as important, but there you go

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#193

Post by enriquto »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #137
enriquto wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an European, I just don't get the Israeli fixation with Iran, I agree, but let's not forget also the ridiculous fixation of Iran with Israel, which is even more senseless. I do not understand where the Irani animosity towards Israel comes from. Both countries are surrounded by arabs that hate them, wouldn't they all be better of as best buddies?

> I do not understand where the Irani animosity towards Israel comes from. Both countries are surrounded by arabs that hate them, wouldn't they all be better of as best buddies? I have studied this very question previously and it's a bit more complex than that. Iran had a democratically elected government, but in the early 50s, the UK & US orchestrated a coup that ousted that government, since they wanted to national…

Thanks for the explanation. It is just very sad that things turned out this way.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#194

Post by ashelmire »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #181
strictnein wrote: post #173

Yeah, Iran is just a simple country that doesn't deserve any of this... they treat everyone well, don't subjugate half their population along gender lines, aren't responsible for thousands of US and Iraqi causalities, and don't export terrorism across the region. I know the "America is dumb" line works well on HN, but the naivety of some people here around foreign policy is just kind of staggering. Iran's "own destin…

Do you know the history of Iran? It was once a very progressive country before we interfered in their government. With expose to global markets for Iranian citizens, it may be again.

I think you have that backwards. It was another Islamic regime until the west interfered with it. Then it became more progressive due in large part to our interference. Then the Islamists revolted, wanting to regress back to a less progressive state, fearing secularism - which gave us the Islamic state we have today.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#195

Post by nickik »

strictnein wrote: post #173

Yeah, Iran is just a simple country that doesn't deserve any of this... they treat everyone well, don't subjugate half their population along gender lines, aren't responsible for thousands of US and Iraqi causalities, and don't export terrorism across the region. I know the "America is dumb" line works well on HN, but the naivety of some people here around foreign policy is just kind of staggering. Iran's "own destin…

The US position with Iran has LITERALLY NOTHING to do with gener lines, or causalities or export of terrorism.

The allies that the US works with to contain Iran are worse in every single category you mention. Claiming the moral high ground over Iran is embracing and only works for people who don't have a clue about the middle east.

Iran has complied with an international process according to international law after being bullied by the US when the US claims were never true. Iran never had nuclear weapons, they never had a program to build nuclear weapons and pretty much everybody including US spy agencies agree with that.

After this international process, the US fucked all its allies, went against everything they had worked towards. Just to hit Iran with more sanctions that were originally about nuclear issues but now they have dropped that pretense.

Iran is not a good country, but the US and allies does worse quite often and consistently and Iran has very real and legitimate complaints about how they were treated since 1979.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#196

Post by tivert »

morrbo wrote: post #30
colde wrote: post #3

I'm surprised that Britain is even behind this, as they might have been a bit nervous about the US response, considering their ongoing Brexit. This is a great example of how current US foreign policy means a loss of soft power all over the world. I do think that this is a win for world stability though, trading tends to help relations, which helps stops all sort of unpleasantness. Whether this will be enough i don't…

Practically speaking, the UK is completely screwed when it gets to choose who to trade with post-brexit. The deal the US will make with the UK will effectively be too good for the US (US hold all the cards) for the UK to have any form of negotiating power. The US won't "not accept the deal" or "not make a trade deal with the UK" because UK trades with Iran, itt'l be too good for them to pass up. Itt'l be the only thi…

> itt'l be too good for them to pass up. Itt'l be the only thing going that the UK can accept

Do you mean "it'll"?

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#197

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

parthdesai wrote: post #166
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The green party has terrible candidates and often I disagree with their policies. I'm not going to vote for someone just because they're different from the establishment if they have positions I find ridiculous.

And you agree with policies of other two parties? Let take 2016 elections for example, your choices were; Hillary, responsible for a failed country right now and rigged primaries or Trump, the less said about him is better. If enough people voted for a different party, that would keep these two main parties in sort of a check as well, knowing they can't get away with whatever they want.

There are certainly things I don't agree with with the options available.

This idea that candidates need to perfectly represent everyone's opinions is just absurd. I don't agree with everything that Hillary did or that Trump is doing. That doesn't mean everything they did was bad or good.

But to suggest Jill Stein as a viable alternative when she has some dubious backing doesn't really empower choosing the 3rd party, does it?

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#198

Post by freeflight »

josho wrote: post #120
dfxm12 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global conflict is manufactured. I hope we stop buying in. We, the people, are pretty powerless here. Lobbyists and elected officials have too much power and election cycles are too far apart. So even when recent American military action gets relatively low support from Americans [0], neither congress nor the president has any motivation to do anything…

You’ve forgotten how to protest. I recall you guys getting pretty upset over some tea with Britain. Seriously as long as folks are content at home the politicians won’t give a damn about you. Go march in the streets en mass and things will slowly change.

Wasnt the last time this actually happened "occupy" and didn't that get dismantled and side-tracked pretty quickly?

IMHO not even a US specific issue, people in a whole lot of "western countries" seem to have forgotten how to meaningfully protest.

Sure, there is the occasional "against climate change" or "for this societal issue" marches, but they all have the problem of being incredibly obscure in their goals and demands.

Long gone are the days of large scale peace protests against very specific "interventions", like the invasion of Iraq triggered.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#200

Post by pintxo »

rusk wrote: post #42
morrbo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practically speaking, the UK is completely screwed when it gets to choose who to trade with post-brexit. The deal the US will make with the UK will effectively be too good for the US (US hold all the cards) for the UK to have any form of negotiating power. The US won't "not accept the deal" or "not make a trade deal with the UK" because UK trades with Iran, itt'l be too good for them to pass up. Itt'l be the only thi…

In terms of trade, how is it exactly they can complement each other? The geography is a bit of an issue for actual physical goods, and I'm not sure what the UK produces that the US needs. Luxury cars maybe, but IIRC most of these marques aren't even owned by the UK any more, except for perhaps the high end. Cheap Bentley's for American oligarchs? Services, maybe - but again most of the core banking will move away fro…

Sorry, seems there is not much left under UK control

  Bentley -> Volkswagen
  Rolls Royce, Mini -> BMW
  Aston Martin -> Seems to be independent again
  McLaren -> Half the company is owned by Bahrain
  Lotus -> Geely (China)
  Jaguar/Land Rover -> Tata (India)
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