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Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

reuters.com

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Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#111

Post by pygy_ »

jdowongns wrote: post #59
anc84 wrote: post #48

We should have embargos on the US for pursuing a climate change program that destroys the planet.

Yeah, except that the US has reduced emissions more than any other country and is highly competitive on a per-capita percentage basis.

This is only true in absolute numbers, because the US started so much higher than the rest of the world.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?location...

Even though it started lower, Europe has been reducing its emissions at a faster rate. In 2014, Europe was at 63% of its peak of emissions, whereas the US were at 72%.

The slope in log scale gives it away too (from the same data set, comparing US (orange) and Eurozone (blue) since 1971): https://i.imgur.com/099XLIw.png

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#112

Post by dfxm12 »

nkozyra wrote: post #5

Good. I don't know how much longer Americans are going to buy the boogiemen we keep getting fed. Sovereign nations under the the U.S.' thumb, not being able to control their own destiny only works so long as we're complacent. I sense we're growing tired of war for war's sake, leery of ideological battles built for future blowback down the road. We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global…

We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global conflict is manufactured. I hope we stop buying in.

We, the people, are pretty powerless here. Lobbyists and elected officials have too much power and election cycles are too far apart. So even when recent American military action gets relatively low support from Americans [0], neither congress nor the president has any motivation to do anything about it.

0 - https://news.gallup.com/poll/208334/support-syria-strikes-ra...

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#113

Post by catdog »

makomk wrote: post #81
benj111 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU (minus Britain) are united. Its just Britain that cant agree with itself.

If there's one thing about Brexit that Britain can agree on, it's that the deal that's being offered by the EU is awful. It lead to the largest House of Commons defeat for a key government bill in history, and it polls terribly with pretty much everyone. That's why the EU (and most of the British press) have been using the fact that May managed to trade some bad parts of their proposal with differently bad replacemen…

> it's that the deal that's being offered by the EU is awful.

That's because full membership was already the best deal the EU had to offer. A lot of UK politicians seem to live inside a dream world where they think the remaining EU members are obliged to make major concessions without anything in return because a no-deal brexit surely hurts them, a little bit, too.

Also the most disliked thing seems to be the backstop, where exactly is the practical alternative proposal for making sure the Good Friday Agreement is not broken?

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#114

Post by enriquto »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #83
danra wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope we stop buying in. When a politician tells us a country is evil, we need to start asking for receipts. Well, there’s the minor issue of Iran’s totalitarian regime consistently announcing their intent to destroy Israel and devestate the U.S.A, and taking actual steps to support the same. I am Israeli and completely left-wing by the way, and believe there are many steps both Israel and the U.S. could take to m…

[flagged]

> As an European, I just don't get the Israeli fixation with Iran,

I agree, but let's not forget also the ridiculous fixation of Iran with Israel, which is even more senseless. I do not understand where the Irani animosity towards Israel comes from. Both countries are surrounded by arabs that hate them, wouldn't they all be better of as best buddies?

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#115

Post by gadders »

nkozyra wrote: post #5

Good. I don't know how much longer Americans are going to buy the boogiemen we keep getting fed. Sovereign nations under the the U.S.' thumb, not being able to control their own destiny only works so long as we're complacent. I sense we're growing tired of war for war's sake, leery of ideological battles built for future blowback down the road. We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global…

Iran is a radical islamic theocracy that hangs gay people and exports terrorism to the rest of the Middle East in the form of Hamas and Hezbollah.

They also want to wipe Israel from the map and are trying to build nuclear weapons.

We need more sanctions, not less.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#116

Post by louisswiss »

morrbo wrote: post #74
rusk wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when your cheap stuff comes from China Yeah except neither party to this deal is producing "cheap stuff". Both consider themselves to be very much "top tier". > edit - to clarify, the point i'm trying to make is that it really doesn't cost much to ship stuff halfway around the world, especially en masse Yeah, if the stuff is "cheap". Like dramatically cheaper than what you can produce at home.

lol mate you're really not getting it. You said "the geography is a bit of an issue for physical goods". I'm saying, when you can order a sheep from new zealand, or a USB stick from China, and have it show up a few days or a week later, this isn't really a good argument.

There is a kernel of truth to this, in that today geography is less an issue than it used to be.

Unfortunately for Brexiteers who use this as an argument for No-Deal Brexit being an opportunity, however, geography was a big consideration for how pretty much every company in the world has set up its supply chains and partners.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#117

Post by sonnyblarney »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #83
danra wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope we stop buying in. When a politician tells us a country is evil, we need to start asking for receipts. Well, there’s the minor issue of Iran’s totalitarian regime consistently announcing their intent to destroy Israel and devestate the U.S.A, and taking actual steps to support the same. I am Israeli and completely left-wing by the way, and believe there are many steps both Israel and the U.S. could take to m…

[flagged]

"Iran may have rhetoric, but Iran isn't occupying anyone"

Well, Iraq and Syria would be two countries.

And if they could, they would be occupying many more.

Iran is not some entity trying to protect themselves from invaders, they are a theocratic dictatorship and they want to spread their specific brand of revolution throughout the region and the world.

Nukes involve us all so it's less a matter of sovereignty.

Nobody wants Iran to have nukes - not Britain, Germany, France, Russia, China etc which is why they are all signatories to the treaty!

If Iran tried to get nukes in the eyes of the above, they would pull out as well!

The issue here is more or less one of 'what Iran is doing' - not an issue of 'what we should do if Iran is cheating'.

So the headline of 3 major countries doing trade with Iran is not an abnegation of the nuclear issue, it's just a difference of opinion on what is actually going on inside Iran.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#118

Post by misja »

tomp wrote: post #105
shmerl wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, trading with a fascist regime must be good.

Has not trading with "evil" regimes done any good? 50 years later, Cuba still exists, and so does North Korea...

But the Apartheid regime in South Africa has collapsed, and so have (most) communist totalitarian regimes in Eastern Europe.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#119

Post by paulddraper »

audunw wrote: post #77
jdowongns wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, except that the US has reduced emissions more than any other country and is highly competitive on a per-capita percentage basis.

> Yeah, except that the US has reduced emissions more than any other country Starting from insanely high emission levels > and is highly competitive on a per-capita percentage basis. No. That's just false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

???

Your link says in 2013 the U.S. was near its neighbor Canada on per capita carbon emissions.

That's still double the EU. But that's also 6 years ago; the gap will have closed somewhat.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#120

Post by josho »

dfxm12 wrote: post #112
nkozyra wrote: post #5

Good. I don't know how much longer Americans are going to buy the boogiemen we keep getting fed. Sovereign nations under the the U.S.' thumb, not being able to control their own destiny only works so long as we're complacent. I sense we're growing tired of war for war's sake, leery of ideological battles built for future blowback down the road. We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global…

We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global conflict is manufactured. I hope we stop buying in. We, the people, are pretty powerless here. Lobbyists and elected officials have too much power and election cycles are too far apart. So even when recent American military action gets relatively low support from Americans [0], neither congress nor the president has any motivation to do anything…

You’ve forgotten how to protest. I recall you guys getting pretty upset over some tea with Britain.

Seriously as long as folks are content at home the politicians won’t give a damn about you. Go march in the streets en mass and things will slowly change.

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