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Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

reuters.com

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Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#181

Post by femiagbabiaka »

strictnein wrote: post #173

Yeah, Iran is just a simple country that doesn't deserve any of this... they treat everyone well, don't subjugate half their population along gender lines, aren't responsible for thousands of US and Iraqi causalities, and don't export terrorism across the region. I know the "America is dumb" line works well on HN, but the naivety of some people here around foreign policy is just kind of staggering. Iran's "own destin…

Do you know the history of Iran? It was once a very progressive country before we interfered in their government. With expose to global markets for Iranian citizens, it may be again.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#182

Post by benj111 »

ovi256 wrote: post #176
benj111 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you stand morally? You may be right, but it's not right

It doesn't matter where one stands. If you want to fight against, say, the people that run campaigns, you'll have to fight in their chosen arena, that of public oppinion and elections. It's empirically found effective to use "arguments as soldiers" in that arena. If we chose policies through a peer-reviewed search for truth, we wouldn't have this discussion.

But then it becomes a race to the bottom.

So I think you need some enforcement of standards, whether moral or legal.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#183

Post by BeetleB »

strictnein wrote: post #173

Yeah, Iran is just a simple country that doesn't deserve any of this... they treat everyone well, don't subjugate half their population along gender lines, aren't responsible for thousands of US and Iraqi causalities, and don't export terrorism across the region. I know the "America is dumb" line works well on HN, but the naivety of some people here around foreign policy is just kind of staggering. Iran's "own destin…

>Iran's "own destiny" isn't a positive one, so let's not romanticize it.

It's probably more positive than a number of the US's allies, and it is a valid question as to why Iran is the one being picked on.

Everything you say is as true and more of Saudi Arabia. And much of it is also more true for Pakistan. In the latter country, a huge portion of the population literally cheer the assassination of a governor who promised to interfere with Asia Bibi's conviction.

Edit: And let's not forget the slap on the wrist Pakistan got for developing nuclear weapons.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#184

Post by strictnein »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #169
bogomipz wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone accusing others of being "propagandized out of your mind" you seem rather uninformed. >"The current Iranian regime is there BECAUSE of Western meddling, it would not exist otherwise." The original Iranian Revolution was a reaction to Western meddling and policies. The current regime is there because of the consolidation of power of the theocracy. The executive branch is actually subordinate to the Supreme…

> The original Iranian Revolution was a reaction to Western meddling and policies. The current regime is there because... The current regime is there precisely as a result of the Iranian Revolution. > Please provide a single citation for this statistic. This is an absurd statement. http://global-politics.eu/military-assistance-73-percent-wor... I guess I was off by 2%, it's 73% of the world's dictatorships. > The US…

Nice list. It's good to know that selling a country $29k in goods now equates to "supporting a dictatorship". And written by an expert in the field:

> "Rich Whitney is an attorney, actor, radio commentator and disk jockey, Illinois Green Party activist and former Green Party candidate for governor."

The idea that the US is wanting to overthrow Venezuela for oil is just silly. They output roughly what North Dakota does. I know it sounds cool to claim this, but it's just not reality.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#185

Post by m0skit0 »

cannabis_sam wrote: post #165
m0skit0 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? "The European trade vehicle was conceived as a way to help match Iranian oil and gas exports against purchases of EU goods. However, those ambitions have been toned down, with diplomats saying that, realistically, it will be used only for smaller trade, for example of humanitarian products or food." So effectively the EU-Iran trade deal is just a diplomatic move rather than a real trade deal…

Still, it’s a diplomatic move that would have been inconceivable (IMHO) under Obama or Bush..

Ofc, because with Trump the US-EU relation has got to an all-time low, and now the EU tries to look independent even if it can't but ofc you need to show your voters you are not sold to US interests.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#186

Post by Wishmonger »

strictnein wrote: post #173

Yeah, Iran is just a simple country that doesn't deserve any of this... they treat everyone well, don't subjugate half their population along gender lines, aren't responsible for thousands of US and Iraqi causalities, and don't export terrorism across the region. I know the "America is dumb" line works well on HN, but the naivety of some people here around foreign policy is just kind of staggering. Iran's "own destin…

I'm glad to hear someone say this. Iran's government is not a good-faith actor.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#187

Post by louisswiss »

blibble wrote: post #174
louisswiss wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting aside the fact that the UK has a veto over pretty much any important EU decision... > Of course that is one of the most important discussion within the European Union. Is it? Why? > Nothing to say against that. Why should the sovereignty of the UK be paramount? Why not the sovereignty of (for example) London, Cornwall or Scotland? The UK is a mix of geographically-close former countries, inhabited by people w…

> Setting aside the fact that the UK has a veto over pretty much any important EU decision... this is not a fact at all, Lisbon removed the veto from nearly every area, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_E...

Pretty much all of the important stuff is still covered (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_E...)

To argue otherwise would be akin to arguing that the UK parliament isn't sovereign because local councils can make some local decisions independently.

EDIT (To reply to the comment below):

If you read the information in the link posted, it's obvious that the important decisions still require unanimity, even if minor decisions (yes, some of them in important fields) now only require QMV.

FWIW, I'm a fan of QMV.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#188

Post by strictnein »

vegardx wrote: post #180
strictnein wrote: post #173

Yeah, Iran is just a simple country that doesn't deserve any of this... they treat everyone well, don't subjugate half their population along gender lines, aren't responsible for thousands of US and Iraqi causalities, and don't export terrorism across the region. I know the "America is dumb" line works well on HN, but the naivety of some people here around foreign policy is just kind of staggering. Iran's "own destin…

Unlike Saudi-Arabia?

Whataboutism isn't a debate technique.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#190

Post by Retra »

InitialLastName wrote: post #178
Retra wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strikes are far more effective than waving a sign on the street corner.

Strikes are really difficult when you've developed a culture of consumerism and permanent debt trapping big chunks of the population into wage slavery. It's even harder when, at the same time, you put your thumb firmly on one side of the business/labor relations scale by pushing at-will employment and right to work efforts.

I don't disagree with any of that. Will you argue any of that is going to change if we continue to prefer the safety of strong words over decisive action and sacrifice?
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