Would it be possible to build public transit, i.e. light rail and regular train, on top of concrete? This could leverage the current state of American infrastructure, and eliminate the need to demolish road, to replace with rail lines.
Oslo made its city center basically car-free
291–300 of 505 posts
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you propose getting around quickly in car-free city centers? Electric scooter services? I was in NYC the other day, and it was like 1 am and we were several blocks northwest of Times' Square, it was freezing and raining and public transportation was on late night service which would have required 20+ minutes of waiting around shivering for a bus, or a long-ish walk to the nearest subway station and another lon…
Most city centers that go "car-free", especially in Western Europe, only do so for a few blocks. Imagine the entire area around Times Square becoming pedestrianized. And yes, as much as they seem to clutter city streets, electric scooters and the like are seemingly becoming a viable last-mile transportation option.
> Imagine the entire area around Times Square becoming pedestrianized.
We have those. That's called a Shopping Mall.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a recent transplant to the bay area, I'm surprised so few people ride motorcycles - I know that it's not tenable for parents and people with medical conditions, but there are so many people here who could. I cut my commute time in half, I got a lightly used motorcycle + gear for less than the price of a used Prius, I get mileage that's comparable to an economy car and performance that rivals that of a performance…
Riding a motorcycle amongst CA drivers is taking on a significant injury risk. The efficiency gains of a motorcycle vs economy car aren't that significant and the emissions are worse.
A motorcycle isn't much more cost-effective to run than an economy car but a motorcycle has huge performance advantages and radically better / cheaper parking options.
The emissions are worse, but not worse than older cars that are still legal to drive.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah yes, only the rich should be able to drive!
This is actually not such a bad idea. If only the rich can drive then only the rich can commute. The city itself then becomes a haven for the middle class.
> If only the rich can drive then only the rich can commute. The city itself then becomes a haven for the middle class.
Real life shows us the opposite. The more expensive it gets to drive, the more the working class has to live farther away from the city.
Effectively, every dollar you take from people via commuting penalties, comes out of their housing budget. And since urban housing only ever gets more expensive, working class people just get pushed further and further away.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#295I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…
Reading your opinion (and not passing any judgment on it), I recalled this excellent sketch on BBC's Big Train comedy show:
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#296I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…
I dont. cars are freedom, especially in the wide spaces of the United States. Sure its crappy commuting for 1-2 hours in traffic in the city but thats because you guys all work in one place and live in another. Public transportation can be shut down but a jeep can go anywhere.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's important to recognize, though, that in many cases, heavy road users' road use is subsidized by lighter road users. Roads are expensive both in terms of construction/maintenance and land use, they're mostly not paid for by user fees anymore (gas taxes cover a relatively small share, and same for tolls), and many people benefiting from these subsidies are doing so for lifestyle choice reasons and not out…
You use the words "choosing to live far away" but all that generally means is they are poor. Clearly they should just buy a house and move to downtown San Fransisco like everyone who cares about the environment does.
We can also invest in public transit so that them owning a car wouldn’t be necessary
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
Riding a motorcycle amongst CA drivers is taking on a significant injury risk. The efficiency gains of a motorcycle vs economy car aren't that significant and the emissions are worse.
The noise nuisance from motorcycles can also be a terrible blight on urban areas. Although many motorcyclists do ride well maintained, quiet machines responsibly, there's a minority who modify their exhausts to increase noise and pollution in pursuit of a little more power. The noise levels can be ridiculous! Personally, I can't wait for electric motorbikes to take over.
Me too except for one thing:
Loud motorbikes are very bad for your own hearing and disturbing everyone else's peace, but it does make you safer as cars can hear you come. Except if they are playing some loud Metal on the car stereo.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#299A much easier way to reduce pedestrian traffic fatalities than inventing a perfect automatic driver.
Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ever lived any where that's not a major city in the US? It is common here in Michigan to drive 20 miles to work.
I live in a mid-sized city in Michigan (Grand Rapids). Housing in the inner city is relatively expensive (3x+ the cost of the housing 20 miles out). Congestion is not really a thing ... maybe for 1/2 an hour right at 5PM and for 1/2 an hour in the morning. Parking is solved by having cheap lots at the fringes of the city center and providing a shuttle in (parking in the city center is only for higher income folks). A…
Yeah, my point to that guy was that getting rid of cars was ridiculous because so many people have to travel a long way for lots of things in places that sprawl.
I've also lived in GR for around 4 years. I think there is no congestion there because the city is still quite small. Downtown is a very small area and the population is tiny compared to the sprawl.