Oslo made its city center basically car-free • Hacker News Board

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#161

Post by coding123 » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

crowdpleaser wrote: post #146

themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

As a recent transplant to the bay area, I'm surprised so few people ride motorcycles - I know that it's not tenable for parents and people with medical conditions, but there are so many people here who could. I cut my commute time in half, I got a lightly used motorcycle + gear for less than the price of a used Prius, I get mileage that's comparable to an economy car and performance that rivals that of a performance…

When I lived there a buddy on my pool team (when the billiards/pool scene was active and places weren't closing) was a motorcyclist. He lost half his face driving to Santa Cruz because an asshole was going 90 on the 17.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#162

Post by Buldak » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 7:56 PM UTC

danjayh wrote: post #58

themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…

This is important to consider, but even if anti-car policies inadvertently exclude some people, I'd push back against the presumption that they are more exclusionary than pro-car policies. They might still represent an improvement over the status quo in this regard. For instance, anti-car advocates often argue that policies which effectively require people to buy and maintain cars to participate in society are exclusionary of the poor.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#163

Post by Tade0 » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

It focused on Ring 1, the innermost ring road of Oslo’s three motorways, a 1.7km sq area that is home to around 1,000 people of whom 88.1% do not own a car.

1.7km sq is... not a lot really?

I measured the distance between the NW and SE ends of the zone and it's 1650m - or about a mile. That's a 25min walk at a leisurely pace.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#164

Post by gt40 » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 7:58 PM UTC

themagician wrote: post #87

openbasic wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the whole point. Raining, cold, pregnant wife. Or maybe he was accompanied by his elderly father. Or young kid. Not everyone is a healthy 20 year old.

I didn’t know that they executed all old people, children and pregnant women in Venice. Looks like they are doing it now is Oslo too.

...and disabled. I bet the politicians have nice cars though.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#165

Post by renholder » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 7:58 PM UTC

>...as in other cities that have converted some streets to pedestrian-only areas...

These "pedestrian-only" zones certainly aren't unique to Oslo. See Drottninggatan[0] in Stockholm, Grafton[1] in Dublin, Strøget[2] in Köpenhamn (Copenhagen), Kärntner Strasse[3] in Vienna, ad infinitum...

I'm nonplussed that this is in any way news-worthy; however, it seems to be an American website, so maybe that's why?

[0] - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Drottnin...

[1] - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Grafton_...

[2] - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Str%C3%B...

[3] - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/K%C3%A4r...

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#166

Post by nkantar » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 7:59 PM UTC

crowdpleaser wrote: post #146

themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

As a recent transplant to the bay area, I'm surprised so few people ride motorcycles - I know that it's not tenable for parents and people with medical conditions, but there are so many people here who could. I cut my commute time in half, I got a lightly used motorcycle + gear for less than the price of a used Prius, I get mileage that's comparable to an economy car and performance that rivals that of a performance…

I ride in LA and agree with you 100%. The whole city has become so much more accessible thanks to lane filtering and splitting since I started that it's hard to imagine giving it up.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#167

Post by dbdjfjrjvebd » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 8:03 PM UTC

Meanwhile in the real world outside of this PR piece most journeys in Oslo are still by car, the air pollution continues to be terrible and the local government is deeply unpopular. Property prices in the center are lower than around the ring road as people with families are forced to move out of the center.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#168

Post by johngalt » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 8:03 PM UTC

crowdpleaser wrote: post #146

themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

As a recent transplant to the bay area, I'm surprised so few people ride motorcycles - I know that it's not tenable for parents and people with medical conditions, but there are so many people here who could. I cut my commute time in half, I got a lightly used motorcycle + gear for less than the price of a used Prius, I get mileage that's comparable to an economy car and performance that rivals that of a performance…

Riding a motorcycle amongst CA drivers is taking on a significant injury risk.

The efficiency gains of a motorcycle vs economy car aren't that significant and the emissions are worse.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#169

Post by notatoad » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 8:04 PM UTC

smileysteve wrote: post #120

gt40 wrote: post #43

Maybe I missed something but how do old people get around?

Old people are often capable of walking as well. Or taking transit. It's in best interests to encourage the elderly to stay fit and capable. A better question is how do disabled people get around, and how do we prevent people from becoming disabled. Obesity and lack of activity often cause disabilities more than age.

>A better question is how do disabled people get around

according to the oslo public transit website, all buses are wheelchair accessible, and all except three tram lines are wheelchair accessible.

https://www.visitoslo.com/en/oslo/practical-information/acce...

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#170

Post by Xylakant » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 8:05 PM UTC

Buldak wrote: post #162

danjayh wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…

This is important to consider, but even if anti-car policies inadvertently exclude some people, I'd push back against the presumption that they are more exclusionary than pro-car policies. They might still represent an improvement over the status quo in this regard. For instance, anti-car advocates often argue that policies which effectively require people to buy and maintain cars to participate in society are exclus…

For germany, there's a study that estimates that up to 30% of a flats rent in densely populated areas is directly or indirectly caused by car-centric planning. And if I just go round the block and estimate how much space is taken by (toll-free) parking and car lanes, I can quite well imagine that this number might be on the high side, but not entirely unfounded. Just half a block from my flat is a road that is double lane, at intersections 3-4 lanes including turn lanes in each direction, each direction offers a parking along the road and in the middle are two parking lanes 90° to the road. The parking space allocated would be sufficient to create a full house the entire length of the road. All that road space is built and maintained by the city, which receives neither vehicle tax nor any petrol taxes or any of the taxes that car owners pay.

I'm not generally opposed to people owning cars and using them. I'm opposed to people offloading the costs and space requirements of their private property onto the community.