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Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

juliareda.eu

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Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#331

Post by erik_seaberg »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #326
stef25 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR has had a very detrimental effect on user experience, with never ending popups and warnings about crap nobody understands. And being in the EU there's several US publications we can no longer access.

I can buy arguments that extra compliance efforts make some businesses not cost-effective in Europe, but this particular argument is nonsense. It's like a factory that dumped toxic waste into a river complaining that, because of a ban on dumping toxic waste into rivers, they now "have to" dump them to nearby meadows instead, and that makes local customers unhappy. "Detrimental effect on user experience" is an intende…

It's not just the costs, it's attaching a 20M EUR risk to activity that may not even be worth 20M of revenue.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#332

Post by TeMPOraL »

vedantroy wrote: post #299
gregknicholson wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Result is equivalent to censorship. I don't agree that if a business chooses not to operate in a country, because it's unwilling to spend the money required to comply with the country's laws, that that is equivalent to censorship. Another person's personal information is not protected speech.

I always viewed it as a transaction--go to the news site and read the news, in exchange they will sell data on what articles you're reading, etc. I was fine with that transaction. In fact, I would rather have them sell my data instead of charging money. Consumers have a choice on whether or not they want to go to these sites, it's not like they are forced to give away their personal information to news sites. I would…

> I always viewed it as a transaction--go to the news site and read the news, in exchange they will sell data on what articles you're reading, etc.

And I always thought (back in my more naïve days) that I read the site in exchange for being advertised to. Point being, the exact details of the transaction were never shown to the visitors. GDPR fixes that by forcing companies to state the terms of this transaction explicitly, and actually ask the visitors if they're willing to participate in it.

GDPR isn't blocking any sites, it's only disallowing a very particular way of getting users to give up their data and then monetizing that data. Nobody is entitled to their business model working forever, and some companies prefer to shut off a large segment of their market instead of updating their business model. It's their choice.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#333

Post by Aengeuad »

stef25 wrote: post #297
drewbuschhorn wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like we had this exact same argument over GDPR, but no horror stories have descended about Mom and Pop operations run out of business but the evil Brusselcrats.

GDPR has had a very detrimental effect on user experience, with never ending popups and warnings about crap nobody understands. And being in the EU there's several US publications we can no longer access.

You can thank large media conglomerates for the latter, all it takes is one executive decision for dozens of networks and websites to start geo-blocking Euorpe.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#334

Post by paulie_a »

minton wrote: post #317
paulie_a wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American newspapers don't need to care about GDPR. Most websites don't need to care about GDPR. Europe does not get to dictate how non European based websites operate. The GDPR can be outright ignored for a significant part of the internet. I have no idea why an American newspaper would give a shit about GDPR. They could literally put a huge banner up saying "fuck GDPR" and face zero legal consequences.

I’m not sure how accurate that is. It’s obvious to me that American companies larger than mine have cared enough to take action. If they really had no obligation I’m sure they would have simply done nothing.

Do they also follow Saudi Arabian law?

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#335

Post by rdlecler1 »

The EU is going to regulate themeselves to the dark ages by simply creating an environment that is too antagonistic and costly to capitalism compared to other parts of the world. The regulations around capital raising for a fund in the EU is aweful. You’re better off being based in the US and simply invest in EU startups.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#336

Post by TeMPOraL »

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #293
andrewnicolalde wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the fact that many American newspapers, for example, are blocked in Europe is certainly something to worry about. They are not blocked. They have chosen to take their services offline because they don’t think changing their business model such that it no longer depends on aggressively tracking their users is worthwhile or cost-effective. Which is fine by me imho.

>They are not blocked. Self blocking in response to a law to avoid the penalties under the law is being blocked by the law.

Self-blocking instead of making one's business model compliant with the law is a choice. An alternative would be to update the business model.

That's all there is to it. GDPR isn't banning news sites, or other companies; it's banning a very particular set of antisocial business practices.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#337

Post by erik_seaberg »

wbl wrote: post #272
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

right! in a way it creates a couple of jobs but only for those who can program - somebody has to implement these policies into technical reality. looking at GDPR (which I fully support) it has created quite a large niche of specialized lawyers and people are now busy educating themselves about how to isolate PII. No doubt this bill will also produce quite a bit of demand for specialists. But it's hardly innovation. A…

I keep hearing this but most webapp style applications don't have a lot of PII.

Nobody knows yet what will and will not be GDPR PII. The law handwaved like crazy and they haven't even finished hiring all the officials who will interpret it.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#338

Post by buboard »

toyg wrote: post #302
buboard wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH it's not clear what it entails. Plus i m not sure which one is the latest directive. More importantly i have never, ever heard of any local IT unions or societies being involved in the process of legislating these laws (same thing for GDPR). I don't believe this law will change things radically in europe, although i m a little worried with all this predatory lawmaking against US companies. The main issue remains…

> IT unions I think I'd have a bigger chance of meeting a unicorn than a member of a "IT union".

me too, i mean all kinds of IT communities

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#339

Post by TeMPOraL »

mrep wrote: post #329
m-i-l wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most film quotes on HN would be covered by "fair use"[0]. If someone pasted an entire script in a comment that would be something different entirely, and likely to be picked up by the existing flagging or moderation system. Also, I'm not entirely sure how HN itself can be said to be profit-making, e.g. there are no subscription fees to use it and it doesn't appear to have any advertisements from any advertising platf…

I highly doubt they would be flagged and instead upvoted. I have seen multiple instances here where a US website has blocked the EU due to GDPR and some user posts the entire content of the article as a comment.

It would be both - having a copy of an entire article is both desirable for the readers and dangerous to the service.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#340

Post by rdlecler1 »

vedantroy wrote: post #299
gregknicholson wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Result is equivalent to censorship. I don't agree that if a business chooses not to operate in a country, because it's unwilling to spend the money required to comply with the country's laws, that that is equivalent to censorship. Another person's personal information is not protected speech.

I always viewed it as a transaction--go to the news site and read the news, in exchange they will sell data on what articles you're reading, etc. I was fine with that transaction. In fact, I would rather have them sell my data instead of charging money. Consumers have a choice on whether or not they want to go to these sites, it's not like they are forced to give away their personal information to news sites. I would…

Agree. There are ways to protect your data if that’s important to you. If I walk out in the middle of a freeway I should expect that I might be hit by a car rather — the EU instead says, “let’s ban freeways”.
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