Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it • Hacker News Board

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#191

Post by glenrivard » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 1:04 PM UTC

danijelb wrote: post #22

In a weird way, this might be EU's strategy to finally deal significant damage to Google and Facebook, as this law will encourage development of alternatives on decentralized peer-to-peer technologies. However, I'm not sure if EU politicians are that smart...

If that is the intention then they are doing 180 degrees from what they should be doing.

New regulations almost always helps the big guys and hurt the little ones.

This will be a big boost to Google and Facebook and hurt everyone else.

Just like GDPR and the shopping changes in the UK. Both really helped Google and to a lesser extent Facebook.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#192

Post by ben_w » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 1:04 PM UTC

thesaint wrote: post #168

pennaMan wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU maybe is functional maybe not, but one thing is for sure: The Kremlin anti-western propaganda machine is obviously highly functional. More and more people are blaming their countries poverty on the EU while being oblivious to the actual scope of the EU jurisdiction, to the detriment of both their home country and the EU. Without the EU the poor countries would be way, way worse off.

Like Greece?

Yes, like Greece, who the EU helped by getting their creditors to back off and give up some of their claims.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#193

Post by claudius » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 1:05 PM UTC

hyperman1 wrote: post #185

GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

For your info: Hacker News being responsible for the data its users provide is not a problem for the users, it is a problem for Hacker News and similar platforms who leech off content from the general public for their own profit.

Further for your info: Hacker News does not "need a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie", it only needs to take responsibility of you commit copyright infringement by doing so.

I’d happily let Hacker News go if it means other such platforms go with it.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#194

Post by naiveai » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 1:06 PM UTC

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #85

sexydefinesher wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you see as not functioning in the EU?

have you ever been to rural Germany, Italy, France or heard of gilets jaunes? Any idea why they might exist? I live in a very poor EU country (out of choice) and most young people fuck off to Germany or France because their home states have no jobs for them. They don't come back either which causes a massive brain drain on these places. Ask the so called middle class in Croatia, Slovakia, Italy what they think of the…

Brain drain is a thing that exists, but I argue it's not really a problem. I'm not going to address the other aspects of your comment for now at least.

I live in India, where complaints of brain drain are the main topic of discussion among adults here, and the main thing politicians love to blame when looking for excuses. There are no feasible ways to ""solve"" brain drain without either a) taking away people's choices - North Korea has no brain drain, or b) Making your country's incentives better so the problem becomes irrelevant. If you want b, then the term "brain drain" is bad because it is almost always seen as an attack on the choice of people moving out. Use a different, more specific, and more understandable term.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#195

Post by drewbuschhorn » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

hyperman1 wrote: post #185

GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

I feel like we had this exact same argument over GDPR, but no horror stories have descended about Mom and Pop operations run out of business but the evil Brusselcrats.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#196

Post by tremon » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #139

akie wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- I lived in Germany - lived in France - now I live in Eastern EU Seems like you're getting plenty of benefits out of the EU. Most of the issues you mention, while acknowledging that they're real, are not caused by the EU.

free movement should be a human right. I lived a decade in Asia before returning to EU. I'd also move to different countries even if it would require a visa. That has never stopped me. I hope to go to India next year. Has little to do with the EU "giving me the benefit". I alone make that possible not some political entity.

free movement should be a human right

Yet it never is when crossing nations' borders, except within the EU. How can you then say that the EU is not functioning?

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#197

Post by sveme » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 1:09 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #141

iagooar wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say anything you want about the EU, but it's perfectly functioning and always has been.

"Perfectly functioning and always has been"? That is beyond delusion. The EU is co-ruled by an opaque system of non elected bodies, under the table deals, and backroom diplomacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_deficit_in_the_Euro... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/09/brexit... https://www.economist.com/special-report/2017/03/23/how-to-a... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1007/S12…

> The EU is co-ruled by an opaque system of non elected bodies, under the table deals, and backroom diplomacy.

So just like any other democracy in the world. Do you really believe things are different in the House of Commons or the senate?

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#198

Post by avar » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 1:11 PM UTC

GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

> and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons[...]

But what about fandom sites like Wikia? There's mass copyright infringement going on quite openly there, but it's survived under the understanding that e.g. Memory Alpha discussing various topics from Star Trek wasn't causing Paramount any financial harm.

But if the hosters of fan wikis like that will need to become paranoid about that liability they might not host them at all.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#199

Post by mvanga » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 1:13 PM UTC

GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

"internet platforms", "organize", "promote", "large amounts", "uploaded by their users", "in order to make a profit".

These phrases by themselves are open to interpretation in various ways. In particular, what I find dangerous is that these appear to be specific enough to convince people to believe there will be little to no room for abuse, and yet are vague enough to allow a motivated political actor to target someone if they really decided to.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#200

Post by ben_w » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #131

Lucadg wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food in Italy is of extremely good quality and variety. I live in Bulgaria and fruits and vegetables are exceptional and extremely cheap. If you refer to supermarket food I may agree.

indeed Italy (and France) has some o the best food I ever bought. Germany can't compare even with what's available in a Le'clerc or Carrefour in France. yes I was mainly talking about supermarkets. In my current home I only buy stuff at the wet-market - e.g. directly from farmers because the chains just deliver crap. Even the higher prized items in supermarkets (which cost the same as Germany despite the salary diffe…

I wasn’t that impressed with French supermarkets, including Carrefour. Sure, Germany is the home of Lidl, Aldi, and Netto, but Rewe, Edeka, Kaufland, and Biomarkt are all at least as good as what I saw in France.

On the other hand, in the UK, Tesco, Waitrose, and Sainsbury’s are all at least as good as their German equivalents; and (beyond the EU) even the worst EU supermarket was better than almost every supermarket I saw in the USA.