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Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

juliareda.eu

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Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#291

Post by fuscy »

tomp wrote: post #252
fuscy wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not related to business but there's a horror story with Romania (it's in the EU) asking a news organization to provide informants information related to some corruption leaks. The information is requested by the national GDPR enforcer so it bypasses the prevention written in the GDPR about news leaks. Now there's a trial going around with this which blocked any further spread of that information until it's so…

Isn't that just straight abuse of the law? AFAIK GDPR only protects your personal information, it can't be used to request someone else's personal information (if anything, you could argue that GDPR prevents you from giving out another person's info).

This isn't the police or the parliament asking for the information. It's the regulatory body that does inspections to companies to see if they respect GDPR.

So the pretext they're using is that they want to see the information to make sure that the news organisation is not selling it or mishandling it to other third parties. In the process, they'll be able to get the information and maybe it will go to the people involved in the corruption charges (which is the head of one part of the Parliament).

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#292

Post by pathseeker »

presscast wrote: post #223
hyperman1 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

>What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Hold on, that's not true. The intent of law matters and is codified in various ways, including stating the intent of the law directly in its text. This in turn informs judges (including appellate judges!) of how to evaluate a specific case. In jurisprudential systems, this in turn becomes case-law which further cements the intent of the law as a bind…

If you have to reference the intent for every trivial case like HN, the letter of the law is worthless.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#293

Post by PurpleBoxDragon »

andrewnicolalde wrote: post #224
yostrovs wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear what's going on with GDPR, good test cases are only now starting to be tested. But the fact that many American newspapers, for example, are blocked in Europe is certainly something to worry about.

> But the fact that many American newspapers, for example, are blocked in Europe is certainly something to worry about. They are not blocked. They have chosen to take their services offline because they don’t think changing their business model such that it no longer depends on aggressively tracking their users is worthwhile or cost-effective. Which is fine by me imho.

>They are not blocked.

Self blocking in response to a law to avoid the penalties under the law is being blocked by the law.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#294

Post by y4mi »

pas wrote: post #161
y4mi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not unless their lawyers somehow keep the regulation from being enforced for them indefinitely. The regulation itself forbids their main income source

no it doesn't. facebook was always pretty good at asking for permission. it showed you that so and so app will have access to this and that. and people blindly clicked it, because they wanted the maffia wars, the mob wars, the farmville, the latest zinga shitclick time waster to one up their friends in imaginary internet point games. (I tried them too, then luckily the fad wore off.) FB has to show who they sell data…

But that is the thing. The regulation is still in effect, even after they gave the permission.

The identifiable information still has to be encrypted. They still need to specify exactly where the information will go and why. And if a new company wants to access the data or even wants to use the provided Information for something new, Facebook has to ask permission again. Once again telling the user why that company needs permission and why as well.

It's doubtful that the current blanket prompt is enough. But it remains to be seen wherever the law will be enforced and it's of course possible,that nothing will change and regulator's never act on the law

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#295

Post by Zak »

drewbuschhorn wrote: post #195
hyperman1 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

I feel like we had this exact same argument over GDPR, but no horror stories have descended about Mom and Pop operations run out of business but the evil Brusselcrats.

GDPR is still fairly new, and it usually takes a while for the full consequences of complex new legislation to be felt.

As an American who spends a lot of time in Europe, what I have noticed is that a majority of local news sites in the US block me from accessing them using IP geolocation.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#296

Post by LoSboccacc »

drewbuschhorn wrote: post #195
hyperman1 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

I feel like we had this exact same argument over GDPR, but no horror stories have descended about Mom and Pop operations run out of business but the evil Brusselcrats.

> no horror stories

law need to be tested trough time, because it will be used by the next party in power for hundreds years, whether you like the party in power or not.

the only reasonable way to reason about law is full on pessimism.

it's like we already forgot the tyranny that was going on less than a century ago and was acquired through escalating legal abuse.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#297

Post by stef25 »

drewbuschhorn wrote: post #195
hyperman1 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

I feel like we had this exact same argument over GDPR, but no horror stories have descended about Mom and Pop operations run out of business but the evil Brusselcrats.

GDPR has had a very detrimental effect on user experience, with never ending popups and warnings about crap nobody understands. And being in the EU there's several US publications we can no longer access.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#298

Post by toyg »

haywirez wrote: post #74
toyg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that unlikely to believe. Yes, the de-facto working languages in Bruxelles are English and French, but chances are everyone knows both (or even English better). If you send material to MEPs of any country, they will be able to read it if they want - there are dedicated translation services, as you might imagine in an org working with dozens of different ethnicities. Language acts simply as a constituency signa…

Correct - this proposal is coming from the EPP, the largest party in the EU parliament. Predictably, most of their MEPs will just blindly vote for it along party lines. Language barriers are crucial in terms of their constituency universe (plus the older demographic skew). Their voters don't read Reddit, Twitter or anything in English and this issue is nowhere near their radars.

> Their voters don't read Reddit, Twitter or anything in English

That's a bit patronizing, and a view of internet users that belongs to the '90s. These voters might (for example) like memes and forums very much, but not value them enough to shift political alliances over a proposal like this. Not everyone lives 10 hours a day on the internet.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#299

Post by vedantroy »

gregknicholson wrote: post #270
yostrovs wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must understand the economics. Newspapers have zero cash on hand these days, so their choice was to fire staff to allocate money for GDPR or not. Seeing how staff is at a minimum, that was the practical option. Result is equivalent to censorship. I'm surprised you don't find this a terrible outcome.

> Result is equivalent to censorship. I don't agree that if a business chooses not to operate in a country, because it's unwilling to spend the money required to comply with the country's laws, that that is equivalent to censorship. Another person's personal information is not protected speech.

I always viewed it as a transaction--go to the news site and read the news, in exchange they will sell data on what articles you're reading, etc.

I was fine with that transaction. In fact, I would rather have them sell my data instead of charging money.

Consumers have a choice on whether or not they want to go to these sites, it's not like they are forced to give away their personal information to news sites.

I would say the GDPR blocking news sites is a net negative because it denies consumers the choice to read news stories.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#300

Post by JumpCrisscross »

drewbuschhorn wrote: post #195
hyperman1 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

I feel like we had this exact same argument over GDPR, but no horror stories have descended about Mom and Pop operations run out of business but the evil Brusselcrats.

> we had this exact same argument over GDPR, but no horror stories have descended

Romania has already deployed GDPR as a weapon against its press [1]. I also have a short list of anecdotes of economic activity (start-ups and other new market entrants) that would have happened in the EU but, in large part due to compliance costs–including GDPR–wound up happening outside the EU.

[1] https://euobserver.com/justice/143356

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