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Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

juliareda.eu

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Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#201

Post by toyg »

ThomPete wrote: post #190
porlune wrote: post #140

This seems like it will benefit the whales more than the fish, as they can absorb copyright infringement costs into their already expansive legal departments, whereas a smaller company will likely go belly up or be chummed.

This is exactly the ongoing problem with the EU they don't distinguish between large corporations and small businesses which really illustrate how clueless the EU is when it comes to the market and the businesses that are governed.

The post explicitly mentions a clause that will make that distinction. The author argues it might be removed from the final text as part of the ongoing horse-trading, but at least it’s clear MEPs do understand the difference nowadays.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#202

Post by isostatic »

avar wrote: post #198
GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

> and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons[...] But what about fandom sites like Wikia? There's mass copyright infringement going on quite openly there, but it's survived under the understanding that e.g. Memory Alpha discussing various topics from Star Trek wasn't causing Paramount any financial harm. But if the hosters of fan wikis like that will need to become paranoid about th…

Hopefully that would mean fans will host the wikis themselves, rather than the advert/tracking nightmare of fandom

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#203

Post by stordoff »

yani wrote: post #26
kmonsen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific? Which rights?

I have a software product. People resell it on marketplaces. They make €30~50,000 per year from doing this. When I contact the marketplaces they hide behind safe harbour - yes, they suspend the user account but the same user will register the next day under a different name and keep the same practice. The responsibility of the content published should be shifted from the author to the platform so abuse like this is n…

> I have a software product. People resell it on marketplaces.

Can you elaborate on why this is occurring in an illegal fashion? UsedSoft v Oracle [1] and Aleksandrs Ranks and Jurijs Vasiļevičs [2] seem to broadly suggest that reselling used software is legal.

[1] http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?docid=124...

[2] http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?docid=184...

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#204

Post by yostrovs »

drewbuschhorn wrote: post #195
hyperman1 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

I feel like we had this exact same argument over GDPR, but no horror stories have descended about Mom and Pop operations run out of business but the evil Brusselcrats.

It's not clear what's going on with GDPR, good test cases are only now starting to be tested. But the fact that many American newspapers, for example, are blocked in Europe is certainly something to worry about.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#205

Post by KevanM »

drewbuschhorn wrote: post #195
hyperman1 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

I feel like we had this exact same argument over GDPR, but no horror stories have descended about Mom and Pop operations run out of business but the evil Brusselcrats.

These are enforced on a national level though aren't they, in the UK ICO doesn't have the resources to hunt people down and are probably only going to enforce action against major players in the market as they are under the most scrutiny.

The problem comes when a nation decides to use those rules in a way that is detrimental to the populace or a service they see as troublesome.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#206

Post by hkt »

mvanga wrote: post #199
GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

"internet platforms", "organize", "promote", "large amounts", "uploaded by their users", "in order to make a profit". These phrases by themselves are open to interpretation in various ways. In particular, what I find dangerous is that these appear to be specific enough to convince people to believe there will be little to no room for abuse, and yet are vague enough to allow a motivated political actor to target someo…

Being open just means that the judiciary has the room to make it work as cases emerge. Suggesting that this stuff would be politicised - what, the ECJ? - seems unlikely, although I'd be open to hearing of examples of blatant political interference in the EU-wide judicial process.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#207

Post by yostrovs »

claudius wrote: post #193
hyperman1 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

For your info: Hacker News being responsible for the data its users provide is not a problem for the users, it is a problem for Hacker News and similar platforms who leech off content from the general public for their own profit. Further for your info: Hacker News does not "need a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie", it only needs to take responsibility of you commit copyright infringement by doing so.…

[flagged]

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#208

Post by ben_w »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #139
akie wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- I lived in Germany - lived in France - now I live in Eastern EU Seems like you're getting plenty of benefits out of the EU. Most of the issues you mention, while acknowledging that they're real, are not caused by the EU.

free movement should be a human right. I lived a decade in Asia before returning to EU. I'd also move to different countries even if it would require a visa. That has never stopped me. I hope to go to India next year. Has little to do with the EU "giving me the benefit". I alone make that possible not some political entity.

> free movement should be a human right.

Agreed

> I alone make that possible not some political entity.

Except for the armed border guards, the national rules on who can work in a nation, the police who can deport you if you don’t obey the rules, sure.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#209

Post by tremon »

nmeofthestate wrote: post #176
pas wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

now you should be free and bold to click the disagree / refuse / no-cookies button and get the experience you expect. because if the tracking/ad/shit/any cookies are not fundamentally required for the page to show, then denying you the usage of the site is a violation of your privacy (because you can't give selective consent to specific data uses) sure, a lot of sites throw up the ugly banner, but now you can click f…

>now you should be free and bold to click the disagree / refuse / no-cookies button and get the experience you expect. This button doesn't exist in 90% of cases. Websites tend to dump you into a complex, deliberately tedious to edit options UI rather than providing a "No" button.

The operative word is should. The GDPR does not allow that kind of asymmetry.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#210

Post by isostatic »

coldtea wrote: post #141
iagooar wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say anything you want about the EU, but it's perfectly functioning and always has been.

"Perfectly functioning and always has been"? That is beyond delusion. The EU is co-ruled by an opaque system of non elected bodies, under the table deals, and backroom diplomacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_deficit_in_the_Euro... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/09/brexit... https://www.economist.com/special-report/2017/03/23/how-to-a... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1007/S12…

> The EU is co-ruled by an opaque system of non elected bodies

The EU council (comprising of democratically elected heads of government from the 28 member countries)

The EU parliament (comprising of directly elected MEPs from the 28 member countries)

The EU commission president, nominated by the council, approved by the parliament, and standing on a ticket to be EU Commission president during the parliamentary elections

The EU commissioners, appointed by the democratically elected heads of government from the 28 members

Laws are only passed by agreement by the democratically elected council and the democratically elected MEPs.

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