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Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

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Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#241

Post by m-i-l »

hyperman1 wrote: post #185
GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

Most film quotes on HN would be covered by "fair use"[0]. If someone pasted an entire script in a comment that would be something different entirely, and likely to be picked up by the existing flagging or moderation system. Also, I'm not entirely sure how HN itself can be said to be profit-making, e.g. there are no subscription fees to use it and it doesn't appear to have any advertisements from any advertising platforms.

[0] e.g. https://www.bl.uk/business-and-ip-centre/articles/fair-use-c... for UK and https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html for US

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#242

Post by buboard »

zimbatm wrote: post #237

This might be a good thing actually. If huge content distribution platforms like YouTube and Facebook are not viable anymore, it might put a renewed wind in the sails of self-hosting systems. Getting the Internet back to it's distributed nature would make it more resilient.

youtube does not rely on infringing content anymore. at least, 100% of the channels i follow are by makers who try to make fair use of copyrighted stuff or using public domain of historic stuff .

> the sails of self-hosting systems

Self-hosted content is pointless if there are no watercoolers to chat about it.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#243

Post by atq2119 »

sesutton wrote: post #230
cribbles wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the larger point you’re making, but I’d guess that copyright-protected works make up less than 0.05% of all content posted to this site and that includes repo links. /new is mostly just TechCrunch articles and things like that. I’m aware that bad faith interpretation of imprecise wording can be used to weaponize laws, and that laws are sometimes passed for this very reason, but it would be an incredible stretch…

>/new is mostly just TechCrunch articles and things like that Those are all copyright-protected works. Literally everything of any substance is automatically copyrighted.

Those articles also aren't uploaded but merely linked, so the rule doesn't apply.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#244

Post by thesaint »

ben_w wrote: post #192
thesaint wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like Greece?

Yes, like Greece, who the EU helped by getting their creditors to back off and give up some of their claims.

Is that what you believe? The EU bankrupted Greece then asset stripped them..

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#245

Post by buboard »

DanBC wrote: post #61

A friendly reminder that almost no-one commenting in this thread has read the full articles and recitals.

TBH it's not clear what it entails. Plus i m not sure which one is the latest directive.

More importantly i have never, ever heard of any local IT unions or societies being involved in the process of legislating these laws (same thing for GDPR). I don't believe this law will change things radically in europe, although i m a little worried with all this predatory lawmaking against US companies. The main issue remains that europe produces very little online (No european-superheroes memes? big whoop)

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#246

Post by coldtea »

sveme wrote: post #197
coldtea wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Perfectly functioning and always has been"? That is beyond delusion. The EU is co-ruled by an opaque system of non elected bodies, under the table deals, and backroom diplomacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_deficit_in_the_Euro... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/09/brexit... https://www.economist.com/special-report/2017/03/23/how-to-a... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1007/S12…

> The EU is co-ruled by an opaque system of non elected bodies, under the table deals, and backroom diplomacy. So just like any other democracy in the world. Do you really believe things are different in the House of Commons or the senate?

No, but I really believe those at least represent the public and private interests of their own country, not some big-dog country to the detriment of the periphery...

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#247

Post by banku_brougham »

m-i-l wrote: post #241
hyperman1 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

Most film quotes on HN would be covered by "fair use"[0]. If someone pasted an entire script in a comment that would be something different entirely, and likely to be picked up by the existing flagging or moderation system. Also, I'm not entirely sure how HN itself can be said to be profit-making, e.g. there are no subscription fees to use it and it doesn't appear to have any advertisements from any advertising platf…

Fair Use is cold comfort, if we’ve learned anything from the abuse of DMCA.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#248

Post by Nasrudith »

presscast wrote: post #223
hyperman1 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your info: Hacker news is: - an Internet platform - that organizes and promotes large amounts of posts - which are copyright-protected works uploaded by their users - in order to make a profit as it is an advertisement for y combinator. So hacker news needs a filter lest you quote a sentence from some movie. What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Besides, 'meant' is a very dangerous wo…

>What is 'meant' is irrelevant. Important is the letter of the law. Hold on, that's not true. The intent of law matters and is codified in various ways, including stating the intent of the law directly in its text. This in turn informs judges (including appellate judges!) of how to evaluate a specific case. In jurisprudential systems, this in turn becomes case-law which further cements the intent of the law as a bind…

Or they are exceedingly cynical about the arbiters and paranoid about abuses - not a bad tradition when defending rights.

Intents may be pretenses which are cheap and mean nothing. The USSR was "for the people" and killed record ammounts of them. Even if ungrounded in displayed maliciousness a "how will this be abused" mindset is its own tradition and I argue a good thing when considering and writing laws.

Since writing a law meant to allow self defense that has text which allows shooting jaywalkers from your backyard is a bad law "to stop offenses in progress" is a bad law. Even if "reasonableness" is applied that leads to more judiciary work, uncertainty and the possibility of injust absurdities holding. Like bashing the head man who is stabbing you right now into the tile wasn't self defense because wood could have stopped him with less force. Explicit text definitions could have stopped the absurdity with say "threat of lethal force by an invading interloper may be met with lethal force" or "proportionate force" even.

I recognize EU law holds different principles but it isn't treating law as computer code. The opposite in my opinion - you are clinically paranoid if you think your compiler will try to twist your code in its favor. You are accurate when describing people and the law.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#249

Post by krona »

hkt wrote: post #206
mvanga wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"internet platforms", "organize", "promote", "large amounts", "uploaded by their users", "in order to make a profit". These phrases by themselves are open to interpretation in various ways. In particular, what I find dangerous is that these appear to be specific enough to convince people to believe there will be little to no room for abuse, and yet are vague enough to allow a motivated political actor to target someo…

Being open just means that the judiciary has the room to make it work as cases emerge. Suggesting that this stuff would be politicised - what, the ECJ? - seems unlikely, although I'd be open to hearing of examples of blatant political interference in the EU-wide judicial process.

Is this a joke? Judicial activism by the ECJ even has its own wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_activism_in_the_Europ...

A political court is essential to the european project. Absolutely essential.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#250

Post by fredoliveira »

mbel wrote: post #124
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've so far only noticed the blocking on (tabloid) US news sites which when visited with a VPN are full of trackers and overflowing with ads. It didn't feel like a loss to me but would be curious to know if there are services which people feel they really needed/wanted but now can't access w/out VPN?

Instapaper was a sort of nice utility that blocked EU users after May last year. Fortunately there are alternatives, some of them arguably superior (pinboard?).

To be fair, it's been back for a few months and when they did bring it back, they apologized for how they handled the issue for EU citizens.
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