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Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

juliareda.eu

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Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#211

Post by yostrovs »

toyg wrote: post #201
ThomPete wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the ongoing problem with the EU they don't distinguish between large corporations and small businesses which really illustrate how clueless the EU is when it comes to the market and the businesses that are governed.

The post explicitly mentions a clause that will make that distinction. The author argues it might be removed from the final text as part of the ongoing horse-trading, but at least it’s clear MEPs do understand the difference nowadays.

I don't understand the difference and where one would draw the line between small and large businesses. What about medium businesses?

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#212

Post by akerro »

porlune wrote: post #140

This seems like it will benefit the whales more than the fish, as they can absorb copyright infringement costs into their already expansive legal departments, whereas a smaller company will likely go belly up or be chummed.

Same happened with GDPR, it brings profits only to bigger players.

https://www.pymnts.com/news/security-and-risk/2018/gdpr-goog...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/23/google-ow...

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/04/24/alphabet_q1_2018/

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#213

Post by toyg »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #172
iagooar wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say anything you want about the EU, but it's perfectly functioning and always has been.

> it's perfectly functioning and always has been. The EU is far from "perfectly functioning". It functions pretty well but it's not perfect. There's some non-negligible group in pretty much every country that rightfully has some major gripe with the EU. If there wasn't we wouldn't have things like Brexit. I get that you can't please everyone but if the UK GTFOing isn't indicative of some sort of imperfection than I d…

Brexit has nothing to do with the functioning of the EU, it’s a byproduct of a broken political culture. British politicians failed at their jobs for 20 years and then blamed others for it, simple as that. The EU could have been the most enlightened organisation on the planet, and the result would have been precisely the same.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#215

Post by sambe »

DCKing wrote: post #97
radarsat1 wrote: post #10

The GDPR has already resulted in quite a few websites simply refusing to serve the EU. Will this clinch it? Will the EU be cut off form the internet due to over-regulation that no one wants to put themselves at risk over?

I think calling GDPR over-regulation is extremely suspect. The GDPR does a good job in codifying basic privacy principles of what you can do with personal data. Clear communication, consent, control over your own data and data protection principles. Things that should be self-evident but we have been failing with forever, and something that has become an extremely widespread widespread in an online society. The only…

There is a cost to businesses in complying with and implementing regulations, regardless of the size of the business and how good or bad their behaviour has been with respect to the intention of those regulations. You can't deny over-regulation by assuming only the badly-behaving people are burdened by it.

Besides, there is also a cost to me: the never-ending pop-ups and acceptance dialogues, inability to access information in a straightforward manner for those that choose to block, etc.

What is the percentage of users who actively control their privacy as a result of GDPR (and still happily use the website)? What is the percentage of badly -behaving businesses who will be prosecuted?

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#216

Post by sergiosgc »

GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

If it's defined as loosely as you state, it will benefit big players:

- Small organizations can't support repeatedly going to court argue that they are not "organizing" nor "promoting" content in "large" amounts.

- Small organizations can't take the path to being large that youtube or pornhub did. These now host mostly licensed content, because content producers were forced to go along. They can no longer be forced, and a barrier to entry has been thus erected.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#217

Post by stordoff »

GuB-42 wrote: post #160

It looks surprisingly reasonable. "internet platforms that organise and promote large amounts of copyright-protected works uploaded by their users in order to make a profit" That's actually a lot of limitation. From my understanding: "organise and promote" means it is not simple hosting, and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons and "large amounts" most likely excludes smaller webs…

> It is unfair to legitimate companies who do their best to make sure their content really is original or properly licensed.

On the other hand, it could be said that it is unfair to new companies and rewards those who _already_ broke the rules. They already broke the rules, so it would be unfair to stop them from continuing to be broken is a bad argument, but it has to be a consideration when entrenching existing companies (as they can absorb the compliance costs).

I'm not really sure what the correct answer is, as allowing an ongoing harm to continue is clearly untenable[1], but you have to ask if this is really accomplishing the ends we want to achieve, and is it the right way to do it.

[1] assuming no large-scale copyright reform, but that doesn't appear to be on the cards

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#218

Post by avar »

isostatic wrote: post #202
avar wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and "in order to make a profit" excludes organizations like Wikimedia Commons[...] But what about fandom sites like Wikia? There's mass copyright infringement going on quite openly there, but it's survived under the understanding that e.g. Memory Alpha discussing various topics from Star Trek wasn't causing Paramount any financial harm. But if the hosters of fan wikis like that will need to become paranoid about th…

Hopefully that would mean fans will host the wikis themselves, rather than the advert/tracking nightmare of fandom

A lot of them just won't exist then. Many of those communities aren't organized enough to self-host, and if you can't run ads whoever's hosting it on their personal server is going to eat the cost of hosting it, and getting to the point of running it as a foundation like Wikimedia is going to be hard.

But maybe there'll be some meta-foundation like a fanbase version of Wikimedia that'll bring these all under their umbrella, or more likely sites like Wikia will just be hosted commercially by fans in the US blocking EU IPs and fans will need to use proxies or VPNs to browse them.

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#219

Post by r3bl »

yostrovs wrote: post #204
drewbuschhorn wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like we had this exact same argument over GDPR, but no horror stories have descended about Mom and Pop operations run out of business but the evil Brusselcrats.

It's not clear what's going on with GDPR, good test cases are only now starting to be tested. But the fact that many American newspapers, for example, are blocked in Europe is certainly something to worry about.

> But the fact that many American newspapers, for example, are blocked in Europe is certainly something to worry about.

There's just one large company that decided to block EU visitors: Tribune Publishing[0]. Yes, them blocking Europe is bad. Them owning so many local newspapers that this decision even makes an impact is a bigger problem.

I'm not saying that they're the only ones blocking Europe, but I am saying that we wouldn't think of it to be as wide spread if it weren't for Chicago Tribune, Baltimore Sun, and LA Times (among others).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribune_Publishing

Re: Article 13 is almost finished and will change the internet as we know it

#220

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

ben_w wrote: post #192
thesaint wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like Greece?

Yes, like Greece, who the EU helped by getting their creditors to back off and give up some of their claims.

after 2008 the EU had a gun to their had and were made to sign loans that they could never ever repay. they were lent that money because private citizens mostly owned their homes.

Yanis Varoufakis gives good insight into what happened. e.g. "The Euro Has Never Been More Problematic" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhSg9X3q2gc

Germany should not and can not be made responsible for bailing these countries out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtrrN2uWUl8

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