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Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#111

Post by danjayh »

logicchains wrote: post #62
sergiotapia wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same just did that. >resulted in the clinical condition named "compensated hypogonadism," a condition prevalent among elderly men and associated with reproductive and physical disorders. In the men, luteinizing hormone (LH) and ibuprofen plasma levels were positively correlated, and the testosterone/LH ratio decreased. Fuck that. I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though

>I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though You don't have to give them anything. Ibuprofen doesn't make the underlying infection causing the fever go away any quicker, it just alleviates the symptoms. It's a trade off between reducing short-term suffering and risking long-term defects. Personally my parents never gave me painkillers for fever and I'm grateful for it: fever pain is just a tempor…

Rapid rise in temperature in infants, toddlers, and young children can cause febrile seizure. Given the trade-offs, we generally choose to medicate our child when his temperature passes ~102 and it's on a rapid uptrend.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#112

Post by 14 »

logicchains wrote: post #62
sergiotapia wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same just did that. >resulted in the clinical condition named "compensated hypogonadism," a condition prevalent among elderly men and associated with reproductive and physical disorders. In the men, luteinizing hormone (LH) and ibuprofen plasma levels were positively correlated, and the testosterone/LH ratio decreased. Fuck that. I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though

>I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though You don't have to give them anything. Ibuprofen doesn't make the underlying infection causing the fever go away any quicker, it just alleviates the symptoms. It's a trade off between reducing short-term suffering and risking long-term defects. Personally my parents never gave me painkillers for fever and I'm grateful for it: fever pain is just a tempor…

My guess is the down vote comes from someone thinking your comment sounds like you don't have any children or know what you are talking about. You don't give ibuprofen for pain during a fever, though doctors will say it can help because often times the source of the fever will cause pain like an ear infection or strep throat, you give it to reduce the temperature. There is a serious risk of seizure in children if you let fevers run high. So to say you don't have to give them anything is certainly not true in many cases and in fact could be life threatening to just ignore. That would be my guess to the down vote. I have multiple kids and never has the thought in my mind been I will give them analgesic for the pain of their illness. It is about the temp 100% of the time. I do not like to take drugs nor give them to my children if avoided but certain things you must treat. Fever is one.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#113

Post by babuskov »

komali2 wrote: post #110
babuskov wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote you, but you seem to lack experience/knowledge on the topic if you think it's only a painkiller. Ibuprofen's main use is to help to keep the body temperature in check. When your body temperature goes too high you can lose consciousness and even die. I had a very high fever once and didn't want to take any medicine until I started to lose consciousness and I almost fell while waiting in a line in pha…

But how is it better than an ice bath given the side effects of ibuprofen are potentially worse than an ice bath?

Ice bath has really short-term effect. If your body temp is really high, ice bath can take it down for 30-40 minutes and then it's back up. Ibuprofen takes it down for 6 hours.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#114

Post by Izkata »

phlakaton wrote: post #75
rixrax wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Just had friends visiting. Their teenage son had had his wisdom tooth pulled last week. Dentist had then given him (as a standard practice?) prescription for Ibuprofen (800mg tabs?) AND some opioid based pain killer! Needless to say, latter they said went directly to trash after they realized what it contained and for ibuprofen they halved the dosage. To me and his parents this was pain management gone way over…

What to do? IMO: follow the doctor's/pharmacist's instructions precisely. In my case we were instructed to only break out the opidoid in the event of severe pain (has never happened to me but I guess it's possible), and there were quite specific instructions regarding it. If you don't end up needing it, dispose of it.

Exactly this. Removing wisdom teeth in particular seems to affect everyone in totally different ways that can't easily be predicted, so doctors over-prescribe and give strict only-as-needed instructions.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#115

Post by logicchains »

babuskov wrote: post #107
logicchains wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though You don't have to give them anything. Ibuprofen doesn't make the underlying infection causing the fever go away any quicker, it just alleviates the symptoms. It's a trade off between reducing short-term suffering and risking long-term defects. Personally my parents never gave me painkillers for fever and I'm grateful for it: fever pain is just a tempor…

I didn't downvote you, but you seem to lack experience/knowledge on the topic if you think it's only a painkiller. Ibuprofen's main use is to help to keep the body temperature in check. When your body temperature goes too high you can lose consciousness and even die. I had a very high fever once and didn't want to take any medicine until I started to lose consciousness and I almost fell while waiting in a line in pha…

>Fever is the reason people died so much before discovery of antibiotics.

I thought bacterial infections were the response were the reason people died before antibiotics. Fever is the body's response to infection, a primitive means of fighting it. If somebody has a serious infection and you give them anti-fever medication but no antibiotics, they're still at serious risk of death even if their fever goes away.

According to the first article I found while Googling: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/well... :

"The best evidence suggests that there is neither harm nor benefit to treating a fever with fever-reducing medications like acetaminophen or ibuprofen."

"In 1997, these data led to a large, randomized, placebo-controlled trial of ibuprofen in 455 patients with sepsis, a life-threatening infectious condition. In this study, ibuprofen failed to prevent the worsening of sepsis and failed to decrease the risk of death."

So there's no evidence that such drugs actually stop fever "before it gets too late" in adults, as they don't reduce risk of death. I had wrongly assumed the same applies to children.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#117

Post by tzjmetron »

michaco33 wrote: post #3
jey wrote: post #2

"Ibuprofen and hypogonadism — bench to bedside to misinterpreted hype?" at https://www.nature.com/articles/nrurol.2018.26 : > A recent study suggests modulation of luteinizing hormone signalling within the hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis and downstream transcriptional effects caused by sustained ibuprofen use. However, this study cannot be used to draw any clinical conclusions regarding effects of ibuprofen on ma…

Sounds like the industry responding with "we cant really know guys, right?" I'm throwing away my Advil right now. Screw that.

Ditto.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#118

Post by logicchains »

14 wrote: post #112
logicchains wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though You don't have to give them anything. Ibuprofen doesn't make the underlying infection causing the fever go away any quicker, it just alleviates the symptoms. It's a trade off between reducing short-term suffering and risking long-term defects. Personally my parents never gave me painkillers for fever and I'm grateful for it: fever pain is just a tempor…

My guess is the down vote comes from someone thinking your comment sounds like you don't have any children or know what you are talking about. You don't give ibuprofen for pain during a fever, though doctors will say it can help because often times the source of the fever will cause pain like an ear infection or strep throat, you give it to reduce the temperature. There is a serious risk of seizure in children if you…

According to the first article I found while Googling, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/well... :

"The best evidence suggests that there is neither harm nor benefit to treating a fever with fever-reducing medications like acetaminophen or ibuprofen."

"In 1997, these data led to a large, randomized, placebo-controlled trial of ibuprofen in 455 patients with sepsis, a life-threatening infectious condition. In this study, ibuprofen failed to prevent the worsening of sepsis and failed to decrease the risk of death."

The science doesn't seem to support the notion that reducing fever will reduce the risk of fatality in the general case. I had assumed the same thing also applied to children, as before this thread I'd never heard of children getting seizures from fever (at least not from any of the children/parents I knew growing up in rural Australia).

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#119

Post by logicchains »

logicchains wrote: post #62
sergiotapia wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same just did that. >resulted in the clinical condition named "compensated hypogonadism," a condition prevalent among elderly men and associated with reproductive and physical disorders. In the men, luteinizing hormone (LH) and ibuprofen plasma levels were positively correlated, and the testosterone/LH ratio decreased. Fuck that. I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though

>I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though You don't have to give them anything. Ibuprofen doesn't make the underlying infection causing the fever go away any quicker, it just alleviates the symptoms. It's a trade off between reducing short-term suffering and risking long-term defects. Personally my parents never gave me painkillers for fever and I'm grateful for it: fever pain is just a tempor…

Replying to my own comment as it's too late to edit, I was basing my assumptions on studies showing fever reducing drugs have no positive effect on mortality in adults, like described in https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/well..., but was unaware that children face separate risks from high fever that can make such drugs more vital. So my comment is bad advice.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#120

Post by sgt101 »

danjayh wrote: post #111
logicchains wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though You don't have to give them anything. Ibuprofen doesn't make the underlying infection causing the fever go away any quicker, it just alleviates the symptoms. It's a trade off between reducing short-term suffering and risking long-term defects. Personally my parents never gave me painkillers for fever and I'm grateful for it: fever pain is just a tempor…

Rapid rise in temperature in infants, toddlers, and young children can cause febrile seizure. Given the trade-offs, we generally choose to medicate our child when his temperature passes ~102 and it's on a rapid uptrend.

Has this happened often? Also, how often do you measure the child's temperature and how do you establish the rapid uptrend?
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