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Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#61

Post by lgregg »

sandworm101 wrote: post #58
potiuper wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fevers do not kill. Fever is a symptom, which is subjective, not a cause of death.

Fever can indeed kill. Raise the body temp a few degrees, no matter the cause, and things start going wrong very quickly. Google hyperthermia. In fact, i cannot think of any disease that literally kills. Even with the big stuff like cancer or aids, it is always the symptoms that get you. They damage body systems and the decline of those systems (aka symptoms) eventually causes the cardiac arrest or internal bleeds th…

I can confirm a fever can kill, saw and heard about it in SE Asia.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#62

Post by logicchains »

sergiotapia wrote: post #43
michaco33 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the industry responding with "we cant really know guys, right?" I'm throwing away my Advil right now. Screw that.

Same just did that. >resulted in the clinical condition named "compensated hypogonadism," a condition prevalent among elderly men and associated with reproductive and physical disorders. In the men, luteinizing hormone (LH) and ibuprofen plasma levels were positively correlated, and the testosterone/LH ratio decreased. Fuck that. I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though

>I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though

You don't have to give them anything. Ibuprofen doesn't make the underlying infection causing the fever go away any quicker, it just alleviates the symptoms. It's a trade off between reducing short-term suffering and risking long-term defects. Personally my parents never gave me painkillers for fever and I'm grateful for it: fever pain is just a temporary feeling, but some of the uncommon side effects of painkillers are much longer-lasting.

*Edit: To whomever downvoted, I'm curious what part of what I said you disagree with.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#63

Post by anyfoo »

potiuper wrote: post #53
an_account_name wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fevers kill. Ibuprofen and acetaminophen reduce fevers.

Fevers do not kill. Fever is a symptom, which is subjective, not a cause of death.

Not a doctor: Isn’t fever (objectively, it seems) defined as a rise in body temperature? From what I’ve learned about protein denaturalization in high school, that doesn’t sound good if excessive.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#64

Post by rixrax »

gonyea wrote: post #9
michaco33 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the industry responding with "we cant really know guys, right?" I'm throwing away my Advil right now. Screw that.

I get what you're saying, but ibuprofen and acetaminophen save lives. The problem is the western (American?) tendency to self-medicate and to over medicate with really potent stuff. That shouldn't be as normal as it is.

This. Just had friends visiting. Their teenage son had had his wisdom tooth pulled last week. Dentist had then given him (as a standard practice?) prescription for Ibuprofen (800mg tabs?) AND some opioid based pain killer! Needless to say, latter they said went directly to trash after they realized what it contained and for ibuprofen they halved the dosage.

To me and his parents this was pain management gone way over dose! But we’re not medical experts and should not be doing clinical decisions since at one end of this rabbit hole you will find anti-vaccination and other nut jobs.

So what to do?

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#65

Post by snibss »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #51
acct1771 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And acetaminophen reduces empathy, according to some convincing research. What's wrong with cannabis-derived solutions, again?

For those downvoting parent please see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5015806/ And others. True or not, parent wasn't just making up the empathy-painkiller association.

The point being: it's a psychological study, in relation to behavior and emotion, which cannot be measured with NEARLY the same degree of ease or precision as sex-related endocrine effects. It's behavior, and thus potentially non-replicable. It's soft science at best.

Is someone being a jerk? Is it some strange long term NSAID side-effect? Why are they being so cold and callous? Is this just an artifact of social biases that have existed since time immemorial? Is it the drug? Good luck with that one. Have fun p-value hacking it.

Meanwhile, is this person on the effeminate side for a male? Immediately apparent in many cases. Does there seem to be a lot more of this gender dysphoria business going around ever since the 80's when Ibuprofen went OTC? Why yes! Is it the drug? Well, we can introduce a protocol, and study it, and know conclusively in perhaps 10 years. But, between then and now...

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#66

Post by potiuper »

sandworm101 wrote: post #58
potiuper wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fevers do not kill. Fever is a symptom, which is subjective, not a cause of death.

Fever can indeed kill. Raise the body temp a few degrees, no matter the cause, and things start going wrong very quickly. Google hyperthermia. In fact, i cannot think of any disease that literally kills. Even with the big stuff like cancer or aids, it is always the symptoms that get you. They damage body systems and the decline of those systems (aka symptoms) eventually causes the cardiac arrest or internal bleeds th…

Hyperthermia differs from fever in that the body's temperature set point remains unchanged. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermia

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#67

Post by benmarten »

azhenley wrote: post #8
jimmyswimmy wrote: post #6

Having read half the paper, the treatment group took 600mg ibuprofen daily for 14 to 44 days to induce the reported effect of compensated hypogonadism, though the 12 and 24 hour effects on testosterone were apparently easily detectable on ex vivo testicle samples. So, maybe if you need your testosterone, keep off the OTC pain medications. And probably don't donate samples of your testicle either. Interesting paper th…

Did the effect go away when they stopped the treatment? I can’t read it at the moment due to slow WiFi.

What was the effect in the first place?

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#68

Post by adrianN »

rixrax wrote: post #64
gonyea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, but ibuprofen and acetaminophen save lives. The problem is the western (American?) tendency to self-medicate and to over medicate with really potent stuff. That shouldn't be as normal as it is.

This. Just had friends visiting. Their teenage son had had his wisdom tooth pulled last week. Dentist had then given him (as a standard practice?) prescription for Ibuprofen (800mg tabs?) AND some opioid based pain killer! Needless to say, latter they said went directly to trash after they realized what it contained and for ibuprofen they halved the dosage. To me and his parents this was pain management gone way over…

Move to Europe where we don't get as many drugs prescribed? I think the only time you get opioids is after major surgery. Personally I don't know anybody who had to take them.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#69

Post by richardknop »

potiuper wrote: post #53
an_account_name wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fevers kill. Ibuprofen and acetaminophen reduce fevers.

Fevers do not kill. Fever is a symptom, which is subjective, not a cause of death.

Fevers do kill. It’s not common in western world where we have access to antibiotics but in developing world it’s more common.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#70

Post by Klinky »

rixrax wrote: post #64
gonyea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, but ibuprofen and acetaminophen save lives. The problem is the western (American?) tendency to self-medicate and to over medicate with really potent stuff. That shouldn't be as normal as it is.

This. Just had friends visiting. Their teenage son had had his wisdom tooth pulled last week. Dentist had then given him (as a standard practice?) prescription for Ibuprofen (800mg tabs?) AND some opioid based pain killer! Needless to say, latter they said went directly to trash after they realized what it contained and for ibuprofen they halved the dosage. To me and his parents this was pain management gone way over…

Wisdom teeth extraction is a major oral surgery. What was prescribed was not an overdose at all.
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