What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance • Hacker News Board

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#41

Post by p10_user » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 9:38 PM UTC

Asooka wrote: post #33

josho wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america Honestly I think it has a lot to do with the popularity of Fox News and its bias against any centrist/left policy. Also, keep in mind that the US was for decades fighting a war against communism which branded any socialist idea as evil and even going so far as to overthrow socialist governments. So, there are decades of propaganda that needs to be overcome. In…

It's a bit ironic that those of us who grew up in actual communism understand the difference between government- planned healthcare and government- funded healthcare better than Americans. Even as the communist regime was being torn apart, I don't remember anyone wanting to take down the health system. It's still chronically underfunded and many people also purchase third-party health insurance in order to have acces…

Maybe it's not ironic at all, since you actually experienced it and know the difference.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#42

Post by eloff » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 9:38 PM UTC

standerman wrote: post #28

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #7

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine resea…

The people that own insurance companies would become less wealthy. The industries (the 6 companies that own the majority of the media industry https://www.morriscreative.com/6-corporations-control-90-of-... ) that rely on the revenue from all the insurance ads would suffer. There's a decent amount of jobs created by all the inefficiency. Overall it's a boost to the US economy, but at the cost of immense suffering fro…

No, inefficiency does not boost the economy. That spending would get allocated more efficiently otherwise which should actually be an overall boost to the economy.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#43

Post by NicoJuicy » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

devereaux wrote: post #40

NicoJuicy wrote: post #16

Wow, being used to Belgian healthcare... This article really makes America look primitive. We pay a lot of taxes, but at least I don't have to worry about money, if i would get severely sick. Eg. - A checkup at the doctor ( blood) costs 2€, results within 24 hours. - Additional costs are required upfront by law. If I'm not mistaken, you can't even get an estimate on the US.

What's the cost of a checkup at the doctor for a foreign tourist? (who I assume will get results also within 24h, and be informed about upfront costs if it's the law) What's the medican income in Belgium? In the US? I just don't understand how people in HN of all place complain about the costs of healthcare. I believe America has a better system, especially if you are in the hacker mindset (and with IT salaries!). Ju…

Read the article, family situation and not profession related. The amount of narcism you seem to have is astonishing. I'm not sure if you are very young or just don't know many people outside IT.

I'm happy that my non IT-friends are also able to afford healthcare when it goes wrong. Not everyone does IT and only cares about their own situation.

You mention that the wages are a lot more, but here we don't need a scholarship to send your children to a good school. I'm wondering where your children will go to school if you travel around everywhere.

Ps. You need to be a Belgian to get the government to repay you. So you can't get it at the same price of us. So, that's another place where your "logic" fails.

What if your mother, brother and dad get sick within the year and they "don't do IT". Here the OCMW will help you. They won't help other nationalities.

Ps 2. I hate to categorize my "non IT friends", for me everyone is the same. I'm not handy and someone else can't work with a computer. Tomayto, tomahto

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#44

Post by maxxxxx » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

tshaddox wrote: post #38

maxxxxx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In this particular case, the notion that Medicare works at all (let alone well) is a point that about half the country will not concede because it’s one of many a shibboleth that keeps the “sides” at each other’s throats. " One half will throw a fit no matter what gets done. It would be interesting if Trump suddenly announced support for single payer Medicare for all. Republicans would think it's the best thing ever…

> It would be interesting if Trump suddenly announced support for single payer Medicare for all. Republicans would think it's the best thing ever and Democrats would suddenly be against it... I think you’ve got this wrong. I think that in most cases partisanship and hero worship is a lot stronger than support for specific policies. I think you’d find that people wouldn’t change their stated views on single-payer, the…

That's what I am saying. People keep supporting parties and not issues. If the Republicans make an 180 and support single payer their supporters will suddenly love single payer and Democrats will be skeptical.

Just look at deficits. A few years ago Obama's deficits were the number one concern. Now Trump has raised them even more and all concerns are forgotten.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#45

Post by chillwaves » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

hathawsh wrote: post #18

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #7

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine resea…

I think people are holding on to the hope that competition in the marketplace will control prices and bring them back to reasonable levels. I know I held on to that hope for a long time, but it's becoming clear that mere competition among insurance providers isn't a strong enough force. Medical prices are so high now that I think people are ready to consider drastic change.

How can there be competition when there is no price transparency? No ability for the consumer to shop around?

How does anything about the way medical care is administered in the US work in the context of the mythical "free market"?

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#46

Post by TheLuddite » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

devereaux wrote: post #24

TheLuddite wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good idea, but what if you cannot travel because of your health?

Not travelling because of some pain? Painkillers + business class. Not travelling because I'm unconscious or in a critical condition? Foreign insurance + air repatriation. Some countries do sell that, even to non residents. Just get world coverage - it's a bit more than $70, but if something bad happen, you get med evac'ed to that country and treated there. I'm exploring that option as I discover the wonder of medica…

Thanks, that's really surprising...not the stiff upper lip...but the repatriation.

I thought it's only for people with residence + VIP client in a bank or something.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#47

Post by hathawsh » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

Futurebot wrote: post #23

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #7

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine resea…

The real arguments only rarely get stated by politicians, and it's the reason we don't get other universal services, either. It's ideological. The economic efficiency, competency, or access arguments (government can't do anything right, it's wasteful, etc.) while they do get used (and are certainly believed to various degrees) aren't the core (cultural) reasons. They are a belief that: - society should be dog eat dog…

FYI, these kind of beliefs surface mainly when people engage in groupthink. Few individuals actually believe these things. The vast majority believe in helping each other, but they prefer to help voluntarily rather than forcefully. Helping forcefully is often seen as a loss of freedom. Individuals are often OK with that loss of freedom, even though it hurts.

I hope that perspective helps you in your future discussions. :-)

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#48

Post by josho » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 9:43 PM UTC

Asooka wrote: post #33

josho wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america Honestly I think it has a lot to do with the popularity of Fox News and its bias against any centrist/left policy. Also, keep in mind that the US was for decades fighting a war against communism which branded any socialist idea as evil and even going so far as to overthrow socialist governments. So, there are decades of propaganda that needs to be overcome. In…

It's a bit ironic that those of us who grew up in actual communism understand the difference between government- planned healthcare and government- funded healthcare better than Americans. Even as the communist regime was being torn apart, I don't remember anyone wanting to take down the health system. It's still chronically underfunded and many people also purchase third-party health insurance in order to have acces…

Yes, that's why I think the word 'propaganda' is fitting, because for a lot of older Americans the 'C' word was bad full stop and didn't merit any further discussion on what parts were bad and what parts may make some sense.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#49

Post by maigret » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 9:43 PM UTC

heydonovan wrote: post #29

ravenstine wrote: post #4

This might be a bit of a tangent, but I'll throw in my perspective as one of those who has been "risking it" for the last 4 months or so. (I won't go into why I'm risking it unless asked) I think it's difficult for a lot of people to justify paying a lot for things that don't provide much of a tangible/measurable benefit. Ideally, insurance would cover a person if something catastrophic happens, but otherwise it's di…

I know this has to do with health insurance, but I feel the same with auto insurance as well. It still feels like burning money. For example, I've been paying about $120/month for car insurance since I was 18, give or take. Never been in an accident. That's about $14k I've given to an insurance company for literally doing nothing.

Isn’t the only car insurance mandated the one that pays for others? I.e. it is not about you but about making sure that, if you damage someone else or their car, they will get paid disregarding of how much you have on your account.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#50

Post by chillwaves » Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 9:43 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #27

mokus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the formula “just do X”, the problem isn’t so much the “X”, it’s the “do”, for the reasons outlined by the GP comment. In this particular case, the notion that Medicare works at all (let alone well) is a point that about half the country will not concede because it’s one of many a shibboleth that keeps the “sides” at each other’s throats.

"In this particular case, the notion that Medicare works at all (let alone well) is a point that about half the country will not concede because it’s one of many a shibboleth that keeps the “sides” at each other’s throats. " One half will throw a fit no matter what gets done. It would be interesting if Trump suddenly announced support for single payer Medicare for all. Republicans would think it's the best thing ever…

> Republicans would think it's the best thing ever and Democrats would suddenly be against it...

Any evidence of this? Because there is plenty of polling data to show the R camp switching positions based on who is in charge. Never seen it apply the other way.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/10/25/republica...