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What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

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Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#11

Post by maxxxxx »

will4274 wrote: post #9
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #7

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine resea…

Our government is busted. In many cases, it fails to function at all. Thousands of regulations, which are effectively laws, switch back and forth every time the president changes. Both parties blame the other and some independents blame both parties. We have become, as a society, incapable of forming and abiding to compromises. Our healthcare is a shit show, but it's not nearly as much of a shit show as our governmen…

Medicare works pretty well. Just expand it.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#12

Post by devereaux »

I have the best insurance money can buy: a plane ticket to %anycountry (business class if needed)

Cost of emergency endoscopic shoulder surgery in a private for-profit hospital in France, when totally uninsured, and paying by credit card: 1900 Eur - including anesthesiologist fee, surgeon fee, facility fee, radiology, drugs, private room etc. So around $2200 total, done the same day, after being arranged by phone. It was in France just because I couldn't do that in Thailand (great hospitals and food, like France, but also great beaches during recovery)

Add plane ticket + out of pocket costs, divide by 12: about $200/month, 0 deductible - and $0 for the years I don't need anything.

Alternative options for the risk averse: purchase local insurance in %anycountry, all inclusive. Cost of health insurance in Europe for non residents: around $70 per month. Just pay, and get treated in that country if you need it. Of course, you still need the plane ticket to fly there.

Still getting treated abroad is way way way cheaper than the alternatives.

Am I risking it? No. I'm making an educated decision.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#13

Post by jmalicki »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #7

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine resea…

What do you mean by socialized medicine?

If you mean government required and subsidized, like the systems of France and Germany, which have great healthcare systems, that sounds wonderful.

If you mean single-payer healthcare, like Canada and the UK, screw that disaster.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#14

Post by SolaceQuantum »

will4274 wrote: post #9
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #7

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine resea…

Our government is busted. In many cases, it fails to function at all. Thousands of regulations, which are effectively laws, switch back and forth every time the president changes. Both parties blame the other and some independents blame both parties. We have become, as a society, incapable of forming and abiding to compromises. Our healthcare is a shit show, but it's not nearly as much of a shit show as our governmen…

I agree that the government is busted. But from what I understand, one of the two ruling parties is at least somewhat pro-socialized medicine. I do not understand what needs to be compromised about socialized medicine. I struggle with the idea that fear of the government is greater than the desire for universal medical coverage.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#15

Post by TheLuddite »

devereaux wrote: post #12

I have the best insurance money can buy: a plane ticket to %anycountry (business class if needed) Cost of emergency endoscopic shoulder surgery in a private for-profit hospital in France, when totally uninsured, and paying by credit card: 1900 Eur - including anesthesiologist fee, surgeon fee, facility fee, radiology, drugs, private room etc. So around $2200 total, done the same day, after being arranged by phone. It…

That's a good idea, but what if you cannot travel because of your health?

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#16

Post by NicoJuicy »

Wow, being used to Belgian healthcare... This article really makes America look primitive.

We pay a lot of taxes, but at least I don't have to worry about money, if i would get severely sick.

Eg.

- A checkup at the doctor ( blood) costs 2€, results within 24 hours.

- Additional costs are required upfront by law. If I'm not mistaken, you can't even get an estimate on the US.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#17

Post by SolaceQuantum »

jmalicki wrote: post #13
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #7

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine resea…

What do you mean by socialized medicine? If you mean government required and subsidized, like the systems of France and Germany, which have great healthcare systems, that sounds wonderful . If you mean single-payer healthcare, like Canada and the UK, screw that disaster.

What makes single-payer healthcare, like Canada and the UK, a disaster? I'm from Canada and currently live in the US. I don't have many complaints about the canadian healthcare system. I got a suprise bill yesterday in the US healthcare system for routine bloodwork.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#18

Post by hathawsh »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #7

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine resea…

I think people are holding on to the hope that competition in the marketplace will control prices and bring them back to reasonable levels. I know I held on to that hope for a long time, but it's becoming clear that mere competition among insurance providers isn't a strong enough force. Medical prices are so high now that I think people are ready to consider drastic change.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#19

Post by swebs »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #7

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine resea…

The majority of Americans do support a single payer health plan (though there is a larger divide over Obamacare/Trumpcare for various partisan and non-partisan reasons). Instead of asking why the minority does not, you should probably ask why the government is not fulfilling the will of the people. I'm sure lobbyists from the multi billion dollar healthcare industry have something to do with it.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#20

Post by mokus »

maxxxxx wrote: post #11
will4274 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our government is busted. In many cases, it fails to function at all. Thousands of regulations, which are effectively laws, switch back and forth every time the president changes. Both parties blame the other and some independents blame both parties. We have become, as a society, incapable of forming and abiding to compromises. Our healthcare is a shit show, but it's not nearly as much of a shit show as our governmen…

Medicare works pretty well. Just expand it.

In the formula “just do X”, the problem isn’t so much the “X”, it’s the “do”, for the reasons outlined by the GP comment.

In this particular case, the notion that Medicare works at all (let alone well) is a point that about half the country will not concede because it’s one of many a shibboleth that keeps the “sides” at each other’s throats.

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