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What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

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Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#31

Post by olivermarks »

baddox wrote: post #22
jmalicki wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by socialized medicine? If you mean government required and subsidized, like the systems of France and Germany, which have great healthcare systems, that sounds wonderful . If you mean single-payer healthcare, like Canada and the UK, screw that disaster.

Disaster compared to what? The insane number of medical bankruptcies in the United States?

It's worth noting that the modern US usage of the term 'socialized medicine' was invented, amplified and promoted by a pr firm for the for-profit medical insurance industry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialized_medicine#History_of...

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#33

Post by Asooka »

josho wrote: post #21
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #7

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine resea…

> circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america Honestly I think it has a lot to do with the popularity of Fox News and its bias against any centrist/left policy. Also, keep in mind that the US was for decades fighting a war against communism which branded any socialist idea as evil and even going so far as to overthrow socialist governments. So, there are decades of propaganda that needs to be overcome. In…

It's a bit ironic that those of us who grew up in actual communism understand the difference between government-planned healthcare and government-funded healthcare better than Americans. Even as the communist regime was being torn apart, I don't remember anyone wanting to take down the health system. It's still chronically underfunded and many people also purchase third-party health insurance in order to have access to better facilities, but the rates never reach even within an order of magnitude of USA's.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#34

Post by danmaz74 »

"Keith and Diana Buchanan of North Carolina gave up their expensive health insurance this year, and bought a Bowflex exercise machine. Keith said he got into the best shape of his life: “A lot of it is a result of knowing that we’re going to have to take care of our own health a little better,” he said." Unfortunately, being in shape doesn't prevent so many health conditions.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#35

Post by maxxxxx »

devereaux wrote: post #12

I have the best insurance money can buy: a plane ticket to %anycountry (business class if needed) Cost of emergency endoscopic shoulder surgery in a private for-profit hospital in France, when totally uninsured, and paying by credit card: 1900 Eur - including anesthesiologist fee, surgeon fee, facility fee, radiology, drugs, private room etc. So around $2200 total, done the same day, after being arranged by phone. It…

This works fine for some issues but if you have an accident or something like cancer you are still f...ed. Also, surgeries have a certain risk of complication. Unless you have the time and money to fly back and forth during that period the US system will still happily bankrupt you if that happens.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#36

Post by onething »

hathawsh wrote: post #18
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #7

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine resea…

I think people are holding on to the hope that competition in the marketplace will control prices and bring them back to reasonable levels. I know I held on to that hope for a long time, but it's becoming clear that mere competition among insurance providers isn't a strong enough force. Medical prices are so high now that I think people are ready to consider drastic change.

I wouldn't expect competition among insurance companies to lower prices by very much. Insurance companies are already constrained by law as to how much profit they can make and there is only so much overhead you can remove.

In terms of competition, the real problem is the artificially low numbers of health care workers and facilities. The Drs are limited by the low number of medical schools, etc and the number of facilities are limited by requiring Certificates of Need, etc.

First remove these barriers to entry and require transparent pricing. Then... maybe competition would result in lower prices.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#37

Post by yodsanklai »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #16

Wow, being used to Belgian healthcare... This article really makes America look primitive. We pay a lot of taxes, but at least I don't have to worry about money, if i would get severely sick. Eg. - A checkup at the doctor ( blood) costs 2€, results within 24 hours. - Additional costs are required upfront by law. If I'm not mistaken, you can't even get an estimate on the US.

My European point of view is that on many social issues America is primitive, not only healthcare. I didn't realize it before I lived there. Although some people would argue that it's a feature and not a bug, in the sense that Americans pay lower taxes and are free not to spend on healthcare if they don't want too.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#38

Post by tshaddox »

maxxxxx wrote: post #27
mokus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the formula “just do X”, the problem isn’t so much the “X”, it’s the “do”, for the reasons outlined by the GP comment. In this particular case, the notion that Medicare works at all (let alone well) is a point that about half the country will not concede because it’s one of many a shibboleth that keeps the “sides” at each other’s throats.

"In this particular case, the notion that Medicare works at all (let alone well) is a point that about half the country will not concede because it’s one of many a shibboleth that keeps the “sides” at each other’s throats. " One half will throw a fit no matter what gets done. It would be interesting if Trump suddenly announced support for single payer Medicare for all. Republicans would think it's the best thing ever…

> It would be interesting if Trump suddenly announced support for single payer Medicare for all. Republicans would think it's the best thing ever and Democrats would suddenly be against it...

I think you’ve got this wrong. I think that in most cases partisanship and hero worship is a lot stronger than support for specific policies. I think you’d find that people wouldn’t change their stated views on single-payer, they’d just reframe the situation so that they can continue to love/hate Trump and blame the other side for everything they don’t like.

Look at bump stocks. I know staunch Trump supporters who have bump stocks and strongly oppose almost any form of gun control. Does Trump’s bump stock ban make them like Trump a little less? Perhaps. But it certainly doesn’t change their political affiliation in any measurable way.

Same goes for those who oppose Trump. I’m sure they agree that the bump stock ban is nice, but do you think they’re suddenly “coming around” on Trump? I doubt it.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#39

Post by maxxxxx »

devereaux wrote: post #24
TheLuddite wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good idea, but what if you cannot travel because of your health?

Not travelling because of some pain? Painkillers + business class. Not travelling because I'm unconscious or in a critical condition? Foreign insurance + air repatriation. Some countries do sell that, even to non residents. Just get world coverage - it's a bit more than $70, but if something bad happen, you get med evac'ed to that country and treated there. I'm exploring that option as I discover the wonder of medica…

"Not travelling because I'm unconscious or in a critical condition? Foreign insurance + air repatriation."

If you have an accident you will already be >50k in the negative before you even wake up. And nobody will fly you around with serious injuries.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#40

Post by devereaux »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #16

Wow, being used to Belgian healthcare... This article really makes America look primitive. We pay a lot of taxes, but at least I don't have to worry about money, if i would get severely sick. Eg. - A checkup at the doctor ( blood) costs 2€, results within 24 hours. - Additional costs are required upfront by law. If I'm not mistaken, you can't even get an estimate on the US.

What's the cost of a checkup at the doctor for a foreign tourist? (who I assume will get results also within 24h, and be informed about upfront costs if it's the law)

What's the medican income in Belgium? In the US?

I just don't understand how people in HN of all place complain about the costs of healthcare. I believe America has a better system, especially if you are in the hacker mindset (and with IT salaries!). Just fly to wherever, and get treated for a great price and quality.

And that's not specific to the US. I've heard Eastern Europe provides great dentistry services and that even Western Europeans fly there to get treated.

Medecine is a business just like any other. If your local shop tries to screw you, take your business elsewhere

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