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Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

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Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#131

Post by weberc2 »

joshuamorton wrote: post #112
PavlovsCat wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Hate speech" doesn't have a legal definition in the United States that I am aware of. Then fix that, instead of using it as a loophole to ruin the web, and then still not having fixed that.

Either one of defining hate speech at the federal level or preventing businesses from enforcing their own hate speech policies would require a constitutional amendment in the us. I highly doubt such an amendment could ever get popular or political support.

Seems like policing speech is a bad precedent to set, and even if you don’t think it’s a slippery slope, how do we make sure the government’s definition of the phrase is/remains reasonable? Ideally the extreme left wing will be marginalized (i.e., no more dominating universities and newsrooms or tech companies) just like we marginalized right wing extremists.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#132

Post by dragonwriter »

xte wrote: post #86
mirimir wrote: post #57

Being someone who pays ~zero attention to Twitter, and very little to "politics", I had no clue that there was a shitstorm happening over "censorship" by Patreon. (Although I think that it probably is censorship, I'm not sure, so scare quotes.) Anyway, so searx.me shows me a NY Times article from today.[0] And it contains these ironic bits: > Patreon takes a highly personal approach to policing speech. While Google a…

A small note: how can ever a private company claim the right to decide about "hate speech", "illegal contents" etc? If they have suspects they have to go knock the police/other public authority door to signal what they suspect and after comply to the public authority decision. Nowadays to many people do not comprehend really this super-important concept... And many countries try to take advantage of it pushing privat…

> A small note: how can ever a private company claim the right to decide about "hate speech", "illegal contents" etc?

Very easily; private parties are, in fact, in many cases subject to punishment for failing to avoid involvement with illegal activity, which necessarily requires them to identify it.

> If they have suspects they have to go knock the police/other public authority door to signal what they suspect and after comply to the public authority decision.

No, this is generally false; the only time they have to do that is if they want consequences reserved to public authorities to be applied, or if they are engaged in an area of business activity subject to unusual legal protection (usually, regulated monopolies and similar.)

> Nowadays to many people do not comprehend really this super-important concept...

This concept is bizarre and has never been generally accepted, and is contrary to th foundations of most modern systems of law.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#133

Post by joshuamorton »

weberc2 wrote: post #131
joshuamorton wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either one of defining hate speech at the federal level or preventing businesses from enforcing their own hate speech policies would require a constitutional amendment in the us. I highly doubt such an amendment could ever get popular or political support.

Seems like policing speech is a bad precedent to set, and even if you don’t think it’s a slippery slope, how do we make sure the government’s definition of the phrase is/remains reasonable? Ideally the extreme left wing will be marginalized (i.e., no more dominating universities and newsrooms or tech companies) just like we marginalized right wing extremists.

Part of the problem may be that you're off the opinion that tech companies are the extreme left.

I've met people on the extreme left, they're not average Facebook or Google employees. No one on mainstream TV is "extreme" left. You have to get to theyoungturks or chapotraphouse. (And these are marginalized, given that you've probable maybe heard of Cenk and TYT, but CTH is a podcast and subreddit and nothing else).

If your ideal is that the US's center left (which is globally center or center right) is considered the extreme left and marginalized, your personal overton window is so far to the right that you probably shouldn't be making these decisions. And as you say, the government probably shouldn't be either, it would allow a government that believed that CNN was far left to censor it.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#134

Post by dragonwriter »

xte wrote: post #100
jrs95 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses in the U.S. for the most part can discriminate however they want as long as it isn't on the basis of race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation.

So you say that a company can legally lock out a customers without any reasonable notice and room to discuss? In EU for instance telcos, banks etc often change conditions without "negotiation" they simply inform their customers that starting from the next month/year/end of auto-renewal period there are new conditions visible "there" and if their customers refuse the change can end the contract without penalties havin…

> So you say that a company can legally lock out a customers without any reasonable notice and room to discuss?

Generally, limited by terms of the contract with the customer, sure. But most consumer online services have contracts that provide broad discretion to providers.

Some particular services are subject to additional public regulation.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#135

Post by Qworg »

gaius wrote: post #74
Qworg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks don't necessarily trust each other and "I thought the other guy did KYC/AML" isn't a defense when the Feds show up.

A bank will KYC/AML other banks too. But two people with accounts at high street banks in economically developed countries should never normally encounter an issue, once they had both passed the initial gatekeeping. Which isn't flawless but should cover the majority of use cases - I mean Patreon isn't Silk Road, is it?

It isn't the majority they worry about - any individual on the OFAC list or folks laundering money is an enormous risk.

While Patreon isn't Silk Road, people can and will try to take advantage of any payment system with weak controls.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#136

Post by ryanlol »

asabjorn wrote: post #102
ryanlol wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it just has to do with the fact that as a company heavily involved in payment processing they’d be crazy to not be exceedingly careful about who they work with? Why would this have anything to do with ideology?

Joe Rohan covered this well [1]. What Sargon is supposedly being banned for according to patreon is using the n-word against Nazis that had been attacking him for a while. Patreon said context didn’t matter and that they didn’t like his “brand” whatever that means. He didn’t say this on patreon or even his own YouTube channel, and let’s remember again he used the language of literal Nazis against them. Supposedly con…

Context doesnt matter if you risk bringing negative publicity to Patreon, which will directly affect their payment processing rates.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#137

Post by ryanlol »

blhack wrote: post #111
ryanlol wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it just has to do with the fact that as a company heavily involved in payment processing they’d be crazy to not be exceedingly careful about who they work with? Why would this have anything to do with ideology?

Patreon allows domestic terrorists on their platform. If they are being exceedingly careful about who they're working with, maybe they should evaluate that.

Could you name some of these domestic terrorists with Patreon accounts?

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#138

Post by mirimir »

beezischillin wrote: post #109
asabjorn wrote: post #64

Patreon has been on a spree to ban people that think the wrong way. Matt Christiansen had a call [1] with Patreon to discuss their banning of Sargon of Akkad. Sargon was notified of the banning by his patrons, not Patreon, and had no recourse to challenge the decision. In the call Patreon made it clear that their platform is; 1) explicitly anti free-speech 2) is not a free market (they can ban you for arbitrary reaso…

These bans and suspensions shaft both the creators and the supporters since neither seem to be notified and yet they often charge supporters. It's shady. Corporations that handle peoples' money should be bulletproof. I would very much prefer if companies just flat out came out and said they don't want someone on their platform instead of trying to twist both their rules and past events to create some kind of coherent…

In the US, it's easy to request card chargebacks if there's been fraud. And charging supporters for banned or frozen creators is arguably fraud. I'm not sure what actually happened with Sargon etc. But according to TFA's OP, Patreon was still collecting money, and hadn't notified either him or his supporters. That's clearly fraud.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#139

Post by asabjorn »

ryanlol wrote: post #136
asabjorn wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joe Rohan covered this well [1]. What Sargon is supposedly being banned for according to patreon is using the n-word against Nazis that had been attacking him for a while. Patreon said context didn’t matter and that they didn’t like his “brand” whatever that means. He didn’t say this on patreon or even his own YouTube channel, and let’s remember again he used the language of literal Nazis against them. Supposedly con…

Context doesnt matter if you risk bringing negative publicity to Patreon, which will directly affect their payment processing rates.

We are here talking about some hypothetical negative publicity. The outrage about what Sargon said is rather contrived and I suspect most of it is an act.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#140

Post by blhack »

ryanlol wrote: post #137
blhack wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patreon allows domestic terrorists on their platform. If they are being exceedingly careful about who they're working with, maybe they should evaluate that.

Could you name some of these domestic terrorists with Patreon accounts?

https://www.patreon.com/intlantifadefence

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/worl...

https://www.patreon.com/chapotraphouse

https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/comments/9k14nf/why_...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_violence

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