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Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

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Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#101

Post by dgudkov »

blhack wrote: post #36

This same story played out 10 or so years ago with Wikileaks, PayPal, and major card processors and banks. The sad realization was that private companies can control who gets to speak very effectively. Lots of people hoped cryptocurrency would fix this, but so far it hasn't.

>The sad realization was that private companies can control who gets to speak very effectively.

It's rather a sad realization that a vocal online minority can control private companies (and public figures) very effectively.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#102

Post by asabjorn »

ryanlol wrote: post #97
asabjorn wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely this is what happens when you create a trust and safety department run by ideologues that censor according to some elusive concept of “hate speech”. Who defines hate? Ideologues should at least not

Maybe it just has to do with the fact that as a company heavily involved in payment processing they’d be crazy to not be exceedingly careful about who they work with? Why would this have anything to do with ideology?

Joe Rohan covered this well [1]. What Sargon is supposedly being banned for according to patreon is using the n-word against Nazis that had been attacking him for a while. Patreon said context didn’t matter and that they didn’t like his “brand” whatever that means. He didn’t say this on patreon or even his own YouTube channel, and let’s remember again he used the language of literal Nazis against them.

Supposedly context doesn’t matter if you violate social justice beliefs, because somehow sharing the platform with someone that does wrongthink also taints you. It is a very dangerous way of thinking and we should not tolerate it from tech platforms.

[1] https://youtu.be/2wsQPFyZghc

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#103

Post by beerbajay »

xolorg wrote: post #71
asabjorn wrote: post #64

Patreon has been on a spree to ban people that think the wrong way. Matt Christiansen had a call [1] with Patreon to discuss their banning of Sargon of Akkad. Sargon was notified of the banning by his patrons, not Patreon, and had no recourse to challenge the decision. In the call Patreon made it clear that their platform is; 1) explicitly anti free-speech 2) is not a free market (they can ban you for arbitrary reaso…

Patreon is reknown for political censorship of centrists and the right.

Oh come on, they have a ToS like all other companies. It's not "censorship" to not do business with someone. Also, "the right" here is people like Milo and Lauren Southern who are out in the real world causing harm.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#104

Post by asabjorn »

beerbajay wrote: post #103
xolorg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patreon is reknown for political censorship of centrists and the right.

Oh come on, they have a ToS like all other companies. It's not "censorship" to not do business with someone. Also, "the right" here is people like Milo and Lauren Southern who are out in the real world causing harm.

Their CEO Jack Conte a year ago said this exact thing was not covered by their TOS [1]. Patron also admitted that their current TOS text reasonably is worded to only cover what you do on platform. This was not on platform.

Regardless, it is very relevant that a payments platform has arbitrary subjective rules for taking people’s living away. Especially when those reasons are ideological.

[1] https://youtu.be/mujKMPS2FcQ

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#105

Post by sschueller »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #72
asabjorn wrote: post #64

Patreon has been on a spree to ban people that think the wrong way. Matt Christiansen had a call [1] with Patreon to discuss their banning of Sargon of Akkad. Sargon was notified of the banning by his patrons, not Patreon, and had no recourse to challenge the decision. In the call Patreon made it clear that their platform is; 1) explicitly anti free-speech 2) is not a free market (they can ban you for arbitrary reaso…

Although Patreon is an excessively scummy company, there is some evidence that some of these bans were forced by Mastercard and Visa.

This.

Mastercard / Visa / Paypal pretty much control the entire system. Wikileaks was "deplatformed" years ago.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#106

Post by PavlovsCat »

kidoodle wrote: post #41

Apparently J. Peterson is building something to solve this problem. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GWz1RDVoqw4 I wonder how they handle the payment part.

It's a video with the summary of discussion between a lot of people who are unhappy with Patreon and are looking for alternatives, from 9 days ago -- how is that not relevant?

And why are we not busy talking about and making alternatives, rather than downvoting an example of what should be going on here?

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#107

Post by asabjorn »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #72
asabjorn wrote: post #64

Patreon has been on a spree to ban people that think the wrong way. Matt Christiansen had a call [1] with Patreon to discuss their banning of Sargon of Akkad. Sargon was notified of the banning by his patrons, not Patreon, and had no recourse to challenge the decision. In the call Patreon made it clear that their platform is; 1) explicitly anti free-speech 2) is not a free market (they can ban you for arbitrary reaso…

Although Patreon is an excessively scummy company, there is some evidence that some of these bans were forced by Mastercard and Visa.

Read the transcript [1] of the call between Patreon and Matt, and Patreon said it was entirely their decision. Another rather scummy thing is to act ideologically while obscuring your reasons, reasons you are perfectly capable of expressing in private.

MATT: Are you telling me that this was Patreon’s decision then, or someone pressured you into this?

PATREON: No - this was entirely Patreon’s decision.

MATT: Well then I don’t understand passing the buck off to somebody else.

PATREON: No, I’m not passing the buck off. The thing is we have guidelines, but I’m trying to explain, #1 it is our mission to fund the creative class and obviously some people may not want to be associated.

[1] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U0mQjUA0T5INc_GDkwPJ2mfh...

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#108

Post by asabjorn »

syshum wrote: post #85
AllegedAlec wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although Patreon is an excessively scummy company, there is some evidence that some of these bans were forced by Mastercard and Visa.

There is speculation that Mastercard may have put some pressure on them I have seen zero actual evidence for MasterCard, and no speculation for Visa, so I would love to see citation for your evidence? There was Speculation for MC in the JihadWatch banning, but MC has publicly said they were not behind it I believe. PayPal on the other hand probably is, PayPal has been on a moral Authoritarian left war for over a deca…

See the transcript of Matts conversation with Patreon [1]. They said this was entirely their decision, and they did it because they didn't like Sargons brand whatever that means.

[1] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U0mQjUA0T5INc_GDkwPJ2mfh...

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#109

Post by beezischillin »

asabjorn wrote: post #64

Patreon has been on a spree to ban people that think the wrong way. Matt Christiansen had a call [1] with Patreon to discuss their banning of Sargon of Akkad. Sargon was notified of the banning by his patrons, not Patreon, and had no recourse to challenge the decision. In the call Patreon made it clear that their platform is; 1) explicitly anti free-speech 2) is not a free market (they can ban you for arbitrary reaso…

These bans and suspensions shaft both the creators and the supporters since neither seem to be notified and yet they often charge supporters. It's shady. Corporations that handle peoples' money should be bulletproof.

I would very much prefer if companies just flat out came out and said they don't want someone on their platform instead of trying to twist both their rules and past events to create some kind of coherent narrative. I wouldn't be happier but if I had to choose between being lied to or not being lied to, I prefer honesty.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#110

Post by blhack »

asabjorn wrote: post #80
fargo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this has to do with the Kushners (Thrive Capital) leading their latest funding round

More likely this is what happens when you create a trust and safety department run by ideologues that censor according to some elusive concept of “hate speech”. Who defines hate? Ideologues should at least not

To anybody doubting the absurdity we're talking about here: These people (https://twitter.com/RevLeftRadio) still have an active patreon.
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