Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click • Hacker News Board

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#71

Post by citilife » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 7:51 PM UTC

FilterSweep wrote: post #24

citilife wrote: post #4

> Back in 2012 we ran a study showing Google's filter bubble may have significantly influenced the 2012 U.S. Presidential election by inserting tens of millions of more links for Obama than for Romney in the run-up to that election Thank god someone is discussing this. I think it's a real shame that the "media" is focusing only on the 2016 election is discussing how Trump manipulated voters. Sure, they ran advertisem…

The obvious difference being state sponsored actors from a foreign entity weaponized this “feature.” Not sure how you’re equating the two, but it’s disingenous.

I actually would argue it doesn't matter if it's an internal or foreign actor that's doing it. The results / outcomes are effectively the same, the problem is the same.

It's disingenuous to claim a feature like targeted advertising is also "weaponized". There's always been targeted propoganda, that doesn't make it a weapon. Everyone is capable of self deception and their own decisions. If you argue against that, then we probably should start debating whether or not democracy is a good idea.

The problem here, is that we've gotten to a point anyone can target any person or subset of people. They don't even need to be a state actor. If we view that as bad, then we should probably research it (not just the 2016 election, but all elections).

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#72

Post by amelius » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 7:51 PM UTC

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #59

amelius wrote: post #19

I'd like Google to show the full input to their search algorithm at the bottom of the search results, so I know exactly which information it used.

Well, for starters, to add contextual meaning to the words you searched for, they probably have a pretty good language model in the background. That model was likely build with sources such as the English Wikipedia, and their archive of a few million books. So the space at the bottom of the page may be getting a little tight by now.

Of course I meant limited to my data. I don't expect Google to print its entire search index at the bottom of my search page, just because it's an input to their search algorithm ...

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#73

Post by amelius » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 7:53 PM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #31

amelius wrote: post #19

I'd like Google to show the full input to their search algorithm at the bottom of the search results, so I know exactly which information it used.

That would allow some pretty rampant gaming of SEO, wouldn't it?

If Google shows "these results were filtered using the fact that you're a Caucasian, in the age-group 30-35, with a predicted income of $50.000", then how is that going to help SEO much?

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#74

Post by LMYahooTFY » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 7:57 PM UTC

alopecoid wrote: post #25

w323898 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the article was that, even when there is no reason to do so because location and identity are identical, Google STILL gives differently ranked results. Please read more carefully. And I've been using DDG for a bit now and have found it perfectly useable.

Sorry, but I think you are missing the point (please see my follow-up post). The point is, search results are not static even for the same inputs (search string, location, etc), even in privacy mode. That's great that you use DDG and find it useful! If Google was a true monopoly, as the current media blitz would have you believe, then you would not have been able to so easily switch to DDG (or Bing, or...).

Criteria for monopolies aren't static and unchanging. The switching cost for energy or telephony services is not what it was in 1950.

I can't say with confidence how far along Google is toward the threshold of "Monopoly" and have yet to hear an analysis that I would consider definitive in any way.

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#75

Post by mda » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 8:09 PM UTC

therein wrote: post #70

Kiro wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they can't since DDG is a wrapper for Bing.

I have been using DDG primarily ever since Google tried to pull that login shenanigan on Chrome users. Switched to FF and DDG and with the occasional !g, I'm content. Try !b and tell me it's the same as DDG's results.

I think they sometimes mix yandex, yahoo and other stuff as well. There is a reason they never disclose what percentage of queries are served from which source, kinda spoils their magic i guess. Kudos to bing team though, they seem to improved quite a bit apparently.

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#76

Post by Olsi » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 8:13 PM UTC

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Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#77

Post by slededit » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 8:20 PM UTC

yourbandsucks wrote: post #23

kiriakasis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think people will switch back to Google because they find the results more useful, even in privacy mode. I now use duckduckgo as default search engine and my experience is mixed. The problem with google is that sometime you search for something new and then you see the bubble very clearly, which applies non only to search but also to youtube (maybe even more). The problem with duckduckgo is that you are searching…

Youtube in particular is terrible for filter bubbles. In the name of optimizing for 'engagement', my youtube recs are full of politically polarized clickbait. They're not merely reinforcing my existing beliefs, they're actively trying to push me into a bubble. At least facebook has the excuse of actual people pushing this stuff.

I’ve noticed this too. I’ve never clicked any of them yet they keep getting recommended.

My other favorite example is Netflix and WWII docs/movies. Watch just one and forever onward they will be half your recommendations.

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#78

Post by saalweachter » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 8:28 PM UTC

kgwxd wrote: post #10

alopecoid wrote: post #5

Google can and should customize search results based on location, and it's not just about "local articles" as the article suggests. If enough people from the same general location click on certain results more frequently, then those results should rank higher for others who search from that same general location. We use Google because the results are useful, not because they are "unbiased". Ranking implies some sort…

What you're saying makes sense for location dependent results (e.g. searching a map of nearby places). For something like "origin of the universe" results would be very different across the world. What happens when I'm in a location I'm not usually in? Do I get the local results or the results for the place I usually reside?

How would you like Google to decide what the correct answer to [origin of the universe], [gun control] and [vegetarianism] is?

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#79

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 8:28 PM UTC

eksemplar wrote: post #18

2018 was the year I adopted ddg, not because of privacy, but because google result sucks. Almost every time I search, I don’t get a single result I want on the first page. The first 3 results are sponsored adds, then there is the Danish Wikipedia article (useless), then 3-6 advertisements pretending to be content, and then if I’m lucky something that was relevant 5 years ago. DDG isn’t much better, but it’s better. I…

You get the Wikipedia page? How fortunate. I rarely see them on the first page now even when I know there is a relevant article with matching title. Need more space for ads and DoubleClick affiliates.

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#80

Post by millstone » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 8:31 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #60

ergothus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have Google routinely deciding that I didn't mean to use ALL three words I searched for and "helpfully" dropping them. Sure, I can tell it "no, I really want those", but the experience is definitely becoming more and more sub-par for me. As bad is when a search doesn't give me what I want, so I narrow it, only to find that Google uses my previous search to decide what I want to see so I still end up finding similar…

Fun example of this: last week I was trying to figure out all the floating point operations that can produce NaN. Go ahead and try searching Google for "ways to make nan"; it's going to show you dozens of pages of naan recipes, and there isn't even a link to click to make it actually search for what you've typed (instead there's a link for Did you mean "ways to make naan"? , which shows a different set of naan recipe…

Holy cow that's bad. It says: Showing results for ways to make naan. Search instead for 'ways to make nan'.

Fair enough, so click on the Search Instead and it says "Did you mean: ways to make naan" and then shows a bunch of links about breadmaking anyways.