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Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

spreadprivacy.com

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Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#51
When they say "bubble", I think of groups of users with fewer differences within the group than outside the group, sort of like the Wall Street Journal study showed. If they're finding variation among users, but not predictably more or less variation between any two of them, then that isn't a "bubble" to me, it's just customization.

Customization is troubling, but less so than bubbling. (Hey now...)

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#52
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep on trying to love duckduckgo but find that often even typing the exact title of an article I'm looking for, it's not on the first page of results...

Can you post an example? I’ve been using DDG for years, and have never encountered this. Also, the DDG devs are certainly lurking on this thread, and can fix the class of queries in question.

No, they can't since DDG is a wrapper for Bing.

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#53
post #30

To make this research more interesting I'd like to see: 1) repeated queries from the same user. Do the results stay constant over time or do they change? 2) comparisons to the same experiment run against e.g. Bing or DuckDuckGo. It seems to me that some variation in results is to be expected because of users hitting different backends which might be at different stages of index rollouts. Similarly, response times of…

>2) comparisons to the same experiment run against e.g. Bing or DuckDuckGo. Isn't DDG mostly Bing results these days anyways? (unless you're searching in Russian)

Correct.

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#54
post #4

> Back in 2012 we ran a study showing Google's filter bubble may have significantly influenced the 2012 U.S. Presidential election by inserting tens of millions of more links for Obama than for Romney in the run-up to that election Thank god someone is discussing this. I think it's a real shame that the "media" is focusing only on the 2016 election is discussing how Trump manipulated voters. Sure, they ran advertisem…

The obvious difference being state sponsored actors from a foreign entity weaponized this “feature.” Not sure how you’re equating the two, but it’s disingenous.

If the entity is uncovering a fact then what does it matter whether it's a foreign or domestic entity who uncovered it? The fact itself is what's interesting.

I get that an entity could be more interested in uncovering facts about one party than another but in this particular case, the fact was that the Democratic Party was acting "unethically" in some people's eyes. If they hadn't been then it wouldn't have "influenced" people's opinions.

Another way to look at it: that entity didn't annotate the emails, the content of the emails was enough to anger people.

I'm not try to fork this into a flame war, I'm genuinely interested in what other users of this site think, particularly those who think differently than I do.

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#55
The study’s result seem to be that users often get unique results. That’s not the same as “personalized”, and it certainly isn’t evidence of “bias” as the spreadprivacy.org-link suggests. A good faith interpretation would point to google running learning algorithms on their results. That would also seem to be a far better explanation for Google changing parts of the page layout, such as the position of news and video results. The use of the term “bias” for describing differences search results also trips my conspiracy theory detectors.

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#56
Being able to know what someone is likely looking for, is something that really helps the search engine experience. "I find just what I'm looking for and it is always on the first page!" is the sound of a delighted user of a search engine.

The cost however is discovery, which is to say things you might be interested in but didn't know exist. To enhance discovery you often need a wide band curator that can surface "likely" interesting things without destroying the experience of always finding what you want.

In the world of real goods these sorts of discovery curators are enthusiast publications which might talk about the new things coming down the road, or a restaurant critic that is trying the new restaurants.

Real human search and discovery is a pretty personal thing. And when it goes on all inside your head/environment its pretty acceptable too. People putting their favorite cookbooks in a more prominent place, wearing specific fashions that they like while only really shopping at clothing stores that support that fashion look.

When that information is at a third party, and dissectable by tools, then it gets creepy.

Someone who doesn't "know you"[1] but typically wants to sell you something, can find you and market to you, to help you "discover" something new on their schedule instead of on your schedule. When that knowledge about what you like and don't like, pay attention to and ignore, is weaponized into a tool against you (ostensibly to help you see "great deals" that you might have otherwise missed) whether it is a new job opportunity, fashion choices, the vehicle you drive, or even where you eat lunch. That is where it gets annoying. And when the version of you that you present to the world is quite a bit different than the version of you that only you or your most closest confidant see, and someone outside that circle gets a peek because of your search history and what you have shown interest in? That is an existential threat to 'outing' the real you.

That information is power; The power to influence you, the power to sell to you, the power to expose you, the power to control how you see the world and ultimately control your actions in that world.

If you could imagine a machine that as people used it, it condensed bricks of pure platinum out of the air. It was a side of effect of the machines operation. And now you tell the owner of the machine, you can't sell that platinum, you need to just grind it up and throw it away. Well that isn't going to happen, even if there is a big 'for show' grinding operation taking place up in the lobby of the machine's owner. The owner might say, "I charge you nothing to use my useful machine, I am going to keep some of the platinum it produces to cover expenses.

[1] I'm using the phrase in the colloquial where a "known" person is someone who is both familiar and has been granted a certain level of access to your inner thought processes.

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think people will switch back to Google because they find the results more useful, even in privacy mode. I now use duckduckgo as default search engine and my experience is mixed. The problem with google is that sometime you search for something new and then you see the bubble very clearly, which applies non only to search but also to youtube (maybe even more). The problem with duckduckgo is that you are searching…

I keep on trying to love duckduckgo but find that often even typing the exact title of an article I'm looking for, it's not on the first page of results...

I have Google routinely deciding that I didn't mean to use ALL three words I searched for and "helpfully" dropping them. Sure, I can tell it "no, I really want those", but the experience is definitely becoming more and more sub-par for me. As bad is when a search doesn't give me what I want, so I narrow it, only to find that Google uses my previous search to decide what I want to see so I still end up finding similar results.

I remember when Google blew us away with Page Rank (goodbye Alta Vista!), but in the last few years Google has gotten so good on providing entry-level information that it's useless for finding specifics, so I expect the next Big Thing in search to come along, though I have no idea how far out it is.

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#58
post #4

> Back in 2012 we ran a study showing Google's filter bubble may have significantly influenced the 2012 U.S. Presidential election by inserting tens of millions of more links for Obama than for Romney in the run-up to that election Thank god someone is discussing this. I think it's a real shame that the "media" is focusing only on the 2016 election is discussing how Trump manipulated voters. Sure, they ran advertisem…

From your own reference:

All of the Obama supporters who traded their personal information for a ticket to a rally or an e-mail alert about the vice presidential choice, or opted in on Facebook or MyBarackObama can now be mass e-mailed at a cost of close to zero.

That's a ...newsletter? Right?

How is that comparable, except in "It's on the internet" terms, to the Russian government secretly funding ad campaigns using illicitly gained psychometric data?

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#59
post #19

I'd like Google to show the full input to their search algorithm at the bottom of the search results, so I know exactly which information it used.

Well, for starters, to add contextual meaning to the words you searched for, they probably have a pretty good language model in the background.

That model was likely build with sources such as the English Wikipedia, and their archive of a few million books. So the space at the bottom of the page may be getting a little tight by now.

Re: Measuring the “Filter Bubble”: How Google is influencing what you click

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep on trying to love duckduckgo but find that often even typing the exact title of an article I'm looking for, it's not on the first page of results...

I have Google routinely deciding that I didn't mean to use ALL three words I searched for and "helpfully" dropping them. Sure, I can tell it "no, I really want those", but the experience is definitely becoming more and more sub-par for me. As bad is when a search doesn't give me what I want, so I narrow it, only to find that Google uses my previous search to decide what I want to see so I still end up finding similar…

Fun example of this: last week I was trying to figure out all the floating point operations that can produce NaN. Go ahead and try searching Google for "ways to make nan"; it's going to show you dozens of pages of naan recipes, and there isn't even a link to click to make it actually search for what you've typed (instead there's a link for Did you mean "ways to make naan"?, which shows a different set of naan recipes).
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