Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 347 posts

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#181

Post by dsfyu404ed »

Lio wrote: post #113
pjc50 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edinburgh invested in electric and hybrid buses, but they turned out not to have enough power for some of the steeper routes. London is planning to have "Europe's largest electric bus fleet" next year .. of 240 buses? https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/london-to-h... I'm not sure where Shenzen would manage to run 16,000 buses given that London's TFL only have 8,500. The streets must be absolutely full o…

It surprises me about the steep hills in Edinburgh. I would have thought that electric would be well suited to that. You've got large amounts of torque from the electric motor to deal with the steep gradient going up and then you get regenerative braking coming down the other side. It would be interesting to know the numbers involved.

Hills, torque, all that crap is a non issue.

City buses, regardless of drive-train type, are limited in their acceleration first by what passengers will put up with and second by the amount of friction between the tires and the road. An old clapped out two stroke Detroit can still leave a stop fast enough to result in the passengers complaining.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#182

Post by smarinov »

benj111 wrote: post #71

So its interesting to think what will happen when they turn their gaze outwards. How long will it take Chinese brands to be a force to be reckoned with? Yes they might be sniffed at to start with, but that's only the same as Japanese cars in the 60s, Skoda in the 90s and most recently Kia, but other manufacturers won't be able to get away with calling them cheap tat for long (assuming they aren't). I assume there are…

Side note, but I don't get the part about Škoda. They have been building cars literally since the onset of the 20th century and have been a well established producer for a long time before the 90s.

Or was there some kind of consumer boom for Škoda vehicles in the US/Canada/Australia/the UK, or wherever you are from, that I never heard of before?

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#183

Post by bluGill »

agsdfgsd wrote: post #162
ollie87 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are but they need more infrastructure than battery vehicles.

Are a few overhead wires actually more expensive than the massive batteries electric buses require? They are certainly less damaging to the environment.

Wires are expensive and not environmentally friendly to make ether. Remember we are talking about kms/miles of wires, not the few meters/feet in a house.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#184

Post by JorgeGT »

pferde wrote: post #133
iguy wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the hybrid ones have any clever way to re-connect? All the busses I've seen have this system where the driver has to walk to the back and pull on some rubber bands to put the tentacles back on the wires. If this could be automated, then perhaps you could omit wires at big junctions where it's most messy, needs lots of points, etc. Building & maintaining wires with 90% coverage might cost half as much as 100% cover…

Yes, where the hybrid buses connect to the wires (usually at certain bus stops), the wires have sort of "tentacle catchers" on them, shaped as upside-down Vs. The driver just has to stop on the usual spot, press a button, and while passengers are boarding and exiting, the "tentacles" unfurl, and are guided by these "catchers" towards wires. The driver just watches for a light to go on on his dashboard. It works prett…

Just if anyone is curious, the technical term for the "tentacles" is pantograph. And if anyone is more curious about why it has "graph" in it, it's because the term refers to the old utensil for copying drawings which is similar in terms of aspect and principle.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#185

Post by hyperbovine »

morsch wrote: post #153
ThePhysicist wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trolleybuses still require infrastructure wherever they run, hence in many cities in Europe they got replaced by trams as they seem to be more efficient (because they're much longer than a bus). In Berlin there are already electric buses in operation on several lines (manufactured by Solaris, a Polish company and EVO bus, a Mercedes Benz subsidiary) and they will start experimenting with inductive charging soon. The…

Inductive charging is only 90% efficient at best. Doesn't really matter for portable devices with their tiny batteries, but it seems wasteful for vehicles.

It does matter if it means for don't have to drive 10000lbs of batteries around all day.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#186

Post by isostatic »

benj111 wrote: post #76
pjc50 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a problem in that it's effectively banned by international treaty as part of the ICAO. I believe people are working on changing this but it will be slow going.

The UK has the Air Passenger Duty. Which is kind of similar (you are charged more for flying a farther distance). So there are ways of structuring it legally.

Not great, as it's passenger based there's no incentive to fly on a cleaner plane, or on a busier plane. A 747 that's only 25% full will cost the same as a 787 that's 99% full.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#187

Post by bluGill »

fiala__ wrote: post #116
FooHentai wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, in a weird way it's working in a way that aligns to wider, long-term, individual interests. By making the government the controlling monopoly, China ends up with a form of capitalism where externalities apply to other countries rather than surrounding corporations and citizens. That's kinda interesting compared to how most other capitalist nations are handling their shit right now. You can do 'common good' s…

This is kind of similar to how the USSR industrialised in the 1930s. Western nations were simply stunned at the rate of change, and while we now know it was underscored by unspeakable atrocities, it still applies that such a tightly controlled economy can be very agile and responsive to threats such as climate change.

A tightly controlled economy is better able to do whatever the leaders are interested in. The capitalists response is yes, but a less regulated economy gets there only a little slower anyway, while because it is trying more things it can get to something better instead. It is easy to see what we gained by whatever was done in the past, but it is hard to see what we gave up because we didn't choose to do something else.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#188

Post by em500 »

pjc50 wrote: post #73
Animats wrote: post #8

New Flyer, the US's biggest bus maker, is making battery-electric buses. But sales are low - 40 to Montreal, 10 to Toronto, 35 to Los Angeles. In comparison, Shenzhen recently replaced 16,000 of its buses with electrics, all from BYD. Shenzhen also replaced all of its cabs with electrics.

Edinburgh invested in electric and hybrid buses, but they turned out not to have enough power for some of the steeper routes. London is planning to have "Europe's largest electric bus fleet" next year .. of 240 buses? https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/london-to-h... I'm not sure where Shenzen would manage to run 16,000 buses given that London's TFL only have 8,500. The streets must be absolutely full o…

> I'm not sure where Shenzen would manage to run 16,000 buses given that London's TFL only have 8,500.

Not sure why it would be very surprising. Shenzhen has a much higher population than London, and probably less private ownership.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#189

Post by isostatic »

ovi256 wrote: post #142
CalRobert wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that the thought of the Netherlands conjures images of happy families in bakfiets {and jealousy on my part) I was startled to learn their per capita greenhouse gas emissions are among the worst in the EU.

They're an almost completely urban population with a high standard of living. Of course that needs energy and greenshouse emissions to make happen.

Urburnites claim that city living is cleaner (co2 wise) that living in the country

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#190

Post by imtringued »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #146
paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

Trolleybuses still require infrastructure wherever they run, hence in many cities in Europe they got replaced by trams as they seem to be more efficient (because they're much longer than a bus). In Berlin there are already electric buses in operation on several lines (manufactured by Solaris, a Polish company and EVO bus, a Mercedes Benz subsidiary) and they will start experimenting with inductive charging soon. The…

Braunschweig has inductive charging for buses in active use for 4 years already. [0]

[0] https://www.verkehr-bs.de/fileadmin/user_upload/downloads/Em...

Post reply on HN