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China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

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Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#111

Post by kd5bjo »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #104
_Microft wrote: post #77

I grant that there's a lack of electric buses and trucks in western countries but how is a taxi different from a normal car? Build electric cars and you can have electric taxis? There are counter examples though. The Deutsche Post , the german postal service, wanted to electrify their fleet and bought the company StreetScooter GmbH [0] because there were no other eletric vans available to replace their VW Caddy s. Th…

I'm not sure of the exact details but taxis are different. Think of any big city taxi - NYC, London, etc. - you've ever gotten into. Bigger. Boxier. More trunk space, etc. Now consider GM's plant closing in the USA. Plants are configured to produce certain vehicles. Volume matters. Yes, cars and taxis are close, but for a number of reasons probably not as close as you think.

Until recently, the most common vehicle I saw being used as a taxi was a Ford Crown Victoria -- a large standard sedan with an aftermarket partition between the front and back seats.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#112

Post by fiala__ »

icebraining wrote: post #90
paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

Some places are bringing them back, e.g. Prague started using them again this year, after 46 years. The modern ones often come with a battery that allows them to run sections of the line without overhead wires.

They've been in continuous use in Bratislava since the 1940s, and they also have the hybrid ones. They're especially suitable for steep slopes where rail-based transport doesn't work. Absolutely iconic vehicles!

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#113

Post by Lio »

pjc50 wrote: post #73
Animats wrote: post #8

New Flyer, the US's biggest bus maker, is making battery-electric buses. But sales are low - 40 to Montreal, 10 to Toronto, 35 to Los Angeles. In comparison, Shenzhen recently replaced 16,000 of its buses with electrics, all from BYD. Shenzhen also replaced all of its cabs with electrics.

Edinburgh invested in electric and hybrid buses, but they turned out not to have enough power for some of the steeper routes. London is planning to have "Europe's largest electric bus fleet" next year .. of 240 buses? https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/london-to-h... I'm not sure where Shenzen would manage to run 16,000 buses given that London's TFL only have 8,500. The streets must be absolutely full o…

It surprises me about the steep hills in Edinburgh. I would have thought that electric would be well suited to that.

You've got large amounts of torque from the electric motor to deal with the steep gradient going up and then you get regenerative braking coming down the other side.

It would be interesting to know the numbers involved.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#114

Post by nothrabannosir »

swebs wrote: post #110
paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

They got rid of them in Philadelphia because people hated driving over the tracks and them ruining their tires. Some routes upgraded to to electric buses that still use the existing overhead power lines. I'd assume the driver has to be careful to stay within certain tolerances since he's no longer on a track.

If it has tracks, it's a tram. An electric bus which uses overhead powerlines is a trolleybus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybus

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#115

Post by stplsd »

swebs wrote: post #110
paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

They got rid of them in Philadelphia because people hated driving over the tracks and them ruining their tires. Some routes upgraded to to electric buses that still use the existing overhead power lines. I'd assume the driver has to be careful to stay within certain tolerances since he's no longer on a track.

Maybe I am missing something, but trolleybuses do not have tracks, they get power from overhead wires.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#116

Post by fiala__ »

FooHentai wrote: post #50
InGodsName wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works in china because CCP thinks, "if it's better for business/control/money/people, we'll do it, doesn't matter if some of us loses in this" Basically, if you are in goverment and you've stock holding in Gas cars, and they are lobbying, gas cars stay. But in China, CCP will simply acquire controlling interest in new winning EV firm if it's better from the perspective of power/money/control over an industry, so t…

And yet, in a weird way it's working in a way that aligns to wider, long-term, individual interests. By making the government the controlling monopoly, China ends up with a form of capitalism where externalities apply to other countries rather than surrounding corporations and citizens. That's kinda interesting compared to how most other capitalist nations are handling their shit right now. You can do 'common good' s…

This is kind of similar to how the USSR industrialised in the 1930s. Western nations were simply stunned at the rate of change, and while we now know it was underscored by unspeakable atrocities, it still applies that such a tightly controlled economy can be very agile and responsive to threats such as climate change.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#117

Post by perfunctory »

paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

They are live and kicking in some countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Belarus

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#118

Post by masklinn »

paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

> Why don't we bring trolleybuses back?

After decades of contraction, Lyon[0] re-started expanding its trolleybus network and converting ICE lines (sometimes back) to trolley a few years back. In the near future they're intending converting half a dozen ICE lines using IMC trolleys for more flexibility (able to run on batteries between overhead transmission segments, and to opportunistically recharge at bus stops).

[0] the premier French city for trolleybuses and one of only 3 cities which still has a network

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#119

Post by iguy »

fiala__ wrote: post #112
icebraining wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some places are bringing them back, e.g. Prague started using them again this year, after 46 years. The modern ones often come with a battery that allows them to run sections of the line without overhead wires.

They've been in continuous use in Bratislava since the 1940s, and they also have the hybrid ones. They're especially suitable for steep slopes where rail-based transport doesn't work. Absolutely iconic vehicles!

Do the hybrid ones have any clever way to re-connect?

All the busses I've seen have this system where the driver has to walk to the back and pull on some rubber bands to put the tentacles back on the wires. If this could be automated, then perhaps you could omit wires at big junctions where it's most messy, needs lots of points, etc. Building & maintaining wires with 90% coverage might cost half as much as 100% coverage, I would guess.

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