Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews • Hacker News Board

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#281

Post by astura » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 1:12 PM UTC

__bjoernd wrote: post #242

astura wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"People I find interesting" is usually synonymous with "people who are like me." Even if it's not intentional, we tend to perfer people like ourselves. My opinion is uninteresting people are just fine for coworkers, you're interviewing for an employee, not a drinking buddy.

On average I'm spending way more time with my colleagues than my drinking buddies, so I would really like someone that I can get along with.

"Get along with" is not the same as "find interesting."

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#282

Post by bambataa » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 1:19 PM UTC

blackstrips wrote: post #239

DoreenMichele wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One day recently, my oldest commented on his observations that when he picks up food at the deli for us, he and other men say things like "Give me half a pound of potatoes." Women typically say things like "Can I have..." They sound like they are asking permission to eat even though they are a paying customer. My experience is that other people are weirded out when I talk in an empowered fashion like a man. Some peop…

As a guy I almost always say “Can I have ...” because there is no guarantee they can fulfill the request. Phrasing it as a question seems more appropriate somehow.

Maybe "may I have" is more appropriate then. However, this veers into the realm of teachers who respond to "can I go to the toilet?" with "I don't know, can you?".

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#283

Post by marvin » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 1:19 PM UTC

ricardoreis wrote: post #256

Balgair wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An interviewer should push you to your limits and the more you know, the more they should push. Granted, this is HN, but this viewpoint is very tech-engineer focused. Most jobs aren't like this at all. Chicken-parts processor interviews aren't like this, para-legal interviews aren't like this, firefighter interviews aren't like this, teacher interviews aren't like this, etc. For the vast majority of jobs out there,…

Chicken-parts processor interviews aren't like this, para-legal interviews aren't like this, firefighter interviews aren't like this, teacher interviews aren't like this, etc. Nor were tech interviews (usually), until about 10 years ago.

Nor are they many other places. I've never had an interviewing experience like this in Norway, for instance. We don't have a Google, Facebook, Apple or Microsoft, but we are reasonably ambitious when it comes to creating software and automating tedious and labor-intensive work.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#284

Post by hycaria » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 1:21 PM UTC

noonespecial wrote: post #38

taeric wrote: post #12

The practice interview point strikes me as odd. In large, because I have never done one. Do folks really typically do that many practice interviews? I don't even know how to study. I sometimes consider it, but have never spent more than an hour prepping for an interview. :( It worries me, because I know that interviewing is a skill. But are we not setting folks up to over index on that skill such that they have diffi…

I went through a phase where I interviewed for fun . When there's nothing on the line and you're treating it like a TV gameshow, the innate absurdity of the whole process is laugh-out-loud funny and a generally good time to be had.

I also like interviewing and don't feel like I have much on the line either (tech is my full-time side gig). Did you get any surprises?

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#285

Post by rorykoehler » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 1:25 PM UTC

cirgue wrote: post #109

saulrh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice that, when they say they only hire the top 1%, there's a vicious sampling bias at work: even in a worst case where they're being literal they're actually hiring the top 1% of their applicants , not the top 1% of engineers . Think about how many jobs you usually apply for before getting one. Now imagine someone that's less successful than you at getting hired and think about how many times they're interviewing.…

We hire the top 5% of applicants. This says a lot about our applicant pool. It says very little about our team. No one here is from a top program. Many don't even have CS degrees.

No you don't. I know you don't because you have no idea who the top 5% of applicants are. Not after interviews, not after 6 months on the job, not even 10 years in the job. You can't distill something as complex as humans working in teams that form a part of a larger organisation into a single number like that. That's not how the world works. For example Bob was doing great work but then his wife cheated on him and he is doing less great work. Is Bob in the top 5% or not?

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#286

Post by rorykoehler » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

alxlaz wrote: post #91

ravenstine wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another similar problem that I'm seeing that I don't think has been pointed out before. Recently, I've been applying for web developer positions and am coming across applications with these sorts of questions: - What's the coolest thing you've done both in life and at work? - What are your dreams? - Where do you see yourself in 10 years? I certainly do have answers for these questions, but I can't tell if the…

I've made a point for myself to never ask questions like "what are your dreams" or "where do you see yourself in 10 years" in an interview, ever. For a long time, I've used these as a filter, too. Getting this kind of question in an interview is a big red flag for me and a huge disappointment. Let me elaborate a little. My dreams are none of an interviewer's bloody business. I'm here to work not share the things that…

I ask a variation of this question. It is along the lines of "how would you like your career to progress over the next 3-5 years?". I am it because I don't want to hire someone for whom the organisation doesn't have a career path for. Any answer is fine. I'm not looking for a particular answer just an honest one.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#287

Post by rorykoehler » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 1:34 PM UTC

GauntletWizard wrote: post #146

alxlaz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made a point for myself to never ask questions like "what are your dreams" or "where do you see yourself in 10 years" in an interview, ever. For a long time, I've used these as a filter, too. Getting this kind of question in an interview is a big red flag for me and a huge disappointment. Let me elaborate a little. My dreams are none of an interviewer's bloody business. I'm here to work not share the things that…

"Where do you see yourself in 10 years" is a simple way of asking how you expect your career to advance and what they should expect of you in the future - It's totally reasonable for a company to be interested in an employee's personal growth plans and yes, your long-term commitments to yourself If you don't have any work-safe dreams, you might want to see a psychiatrist. Again, though, you've misinterpreted the ques…

Who works somewhere for 10 years these days?

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#288

Post by rorykoehler » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 1:39 PM UTC

__bjoernd wrote: post #240

ravenstine wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another similar problem that I'm seeing that I don't think has been pointed out before. Recently, I've been applying for web developer positions and am coming across applications with these sorts of questions: - What's the coolest thing you've done both in life and at work? - What are your dreams? - Where do you see yourself in 10 years? I certainly do have answers for these questions, but I can't tell if the…

Let's focus on the 'cooolest thing' questions as the others are indeed useless in an interview. The whole point of this question is to see if you are excited about something you did and if this excitement resonates with the interviewer/the company. At this point you're trying to see if you and the job match in any way. If your excitement doesn't match expectations, then eventually you might not end up happy with the…

Why do people have to be excited? Some people work for a living and only a living. Things they find exciting may get them fired but they're perfectly good employees all the same.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#289

Post by dev_north_east » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 1:42 PM UTC

twoquestions wrote: post #11

It doesn't help that job ads are wanting "Top 3% only!" or "Only top 1% Ninja Rockstars need apply!". Kind of reminds me of the market for singers or concert pianists, you absolutely need to be the best, even imperceptibly worse makes you unemployable. Should those of us who aren't top 5%/didn't go to a top school just find another industry, one where sub-perfect work doesn't actively make other people's jobs harder?

There's a recruiter on LinkedIn I saw has taken to put the following into every job post "Only looking for the best of the best. No time wasters please." Reminds me of a dating site.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#290

Post by PunchTornado » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 1:42 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #253

PunchTornado wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's almost impossible to prove that something is inherent to a gender vs culturally embedded (education, norms, myths etc.)

It is possible though, there has been scientific research in the matter. One interesting one is that gender differences in academic interest actually increase when people are given equal opportunities, pay, freedom of choice, etc.

equal opportunities? freedom of choice? How can you control for these really abstract concepts that involve thousands of variables. What constitutes freedom of choice when you have the internet and articles that say males should do x and women y? How can you say that something is inherited or environmental? Even with biology, most of the disease imply both factors.

I've seen some of the articles about the Nordic countries and was not conviced at all. They were saying that in Nordic countries women have more choice and they have a lower participation in CS studies. And bang, they thought they proved something...