Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews • Hacker News Board

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#21

Post by esotericn » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 5:57 PM UTC

Isn't this really just a fancy way of stating that (some) people tend to become anxious when put into a high pressure environment?

The whole concept of 'impostor syndrome' seems to rely on unexplored assumptions, like the idea that it even matters whether you should be working at Google or not.

I think that's the key to solving it. Realising that actually, most of us are just rolling through life trying to get by and be useful. The rest is fluff.

If you're playing in a professional football team, you're a professional footballer.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#22

Post by qubax » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

taeric wrote: post #12

The practice interview point strikes me as odd. In large, because I have never done one. Do folks really typically do that many practice interviews? I don't even know how to study. I sometimes consider it, but have never spent more than an hour prepping for an interview. :( It worries me, because I know that interviewing is a skill. But are we not setting folks up to over index on that skill such that they have diffi…

> The practice interview point strikes me as odd. In large, because I have never done one. Do folks really typically do that many practice interviews?

I only did practice interviews for my college internships and my first job because my resume was so light and my experience in the industry was nonexistent. When you have so little to talk about, it's smart to come prepared with a handful of questions.

Once you have 5 years or so of experience, other than light prep, practice interviews are not necessary. You know what to expect in interviews and you have tons of work experience to talk about and industry experience to ask pertinent questions to the interviewer.

But that's just my own personal experience. Also, after my 1st job, I've never had to take "technical or IQ tests" either. The interview process was more center around my projects and work experience rather than technical know-how.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#23

Post by nradov » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:05 PM UTC

twoquestions wrote: post #11

It doesn't help that job ads are wanting "Top 3% only!" or "Only top 1% Ninja Rockstars need apply!". Kind of reminds me of the market for singers or concert pianists, you absolutely need to be the best, even imperceptibly worse makes you unemployable. Should those of us who aren't top 5%/didn't go to a top school just find another industry, one where sub-perfect work doesn't actively make other people's jobs harder?

Obviously those numbers are silly because it's impossible to precisely quantify the relative ratings of knowledge workers. But generally that percentage is very much context dependant. Someone who was top 10% at one role in one organization could easily be bottom 10% in a different role at a different organization.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#24

Post by konschubert » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

thwy12321 wrote: post #13

twoquestions wrote: post #11

It doesn't help that job ads are wanting "Top 3% only!" or "Only top 1% Ninja Rockstars need apply!". Kind of reminds me of the market for singers or concert pianists, you absolutely need to be the best, even imperceptibly worse makes you unemployable. Should those of us who aren't top 5%/didn't go to a top school just find another industry, one where sub-perfect work doesn't actively make other people's jobs harder?

The trick is these companies arent hiring top 1% talent, they're hiring top 1% interviewing talent.

Exactly. The bottom 10% of engineering talent probably fill the bottom 90% of interviewing talent.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#25

Post by bespoken » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

> Impostor syndrome

Does this refer to the company pretending they deserve better than you? I've seen enough incompetent people at companies declining good candidates because they are simply unable to recognise it. I've seen so many shitty companies pretending they are top tier, it's just the arrogance of power. Only once you're in you can see the flaws and mess it often actually is.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#26

Post by _swfb » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:07 PM UTC

As someone with no credentials or official training, and someone who also works at a big megacorporation as an engineer, imposter syndrome hits me fairly hard, especially during interviews. It's really hard to compete with the people who actually have proof that they know what they're doing, and I'm usually interviewing for a job that has a strict requirement of a "bachelors in CS, Math or Physics, Masters preferred".

I've managed to pull it off somehow, but I rarely go a day where I don't wonder if I really should have as good of a job as I do.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#27

Post by CodeCube » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:07 PM UTC

eseehausen wrote: post #14

twoquestions wrote: post #11

It doesn't help that job ads are wanting "Top 3% only!" or "Only top 1% Ninja Rockstars need apply!". Kind of reminds me of the market for singers or concert pianists, you absolutely need to be the best, even imperceptibly worse makes you unemployable. Should those of us who aren't top 5%/didn't go to a top school just find another industry, one where sub-perfect work doesn't actively make other people's jobs harder?

Based on my experience, people who can acknowledge their issues and accurately compensate for them are more valuable than most of the people who think they're the top 1-3%. Obviously you have people who think they are, and it's actually accurate, but I assume they're doing just fine with their half-mill+ salaries at FANG. The rest of the world needs programmers, too, and a little bit of humility and willingness to ke…

Like I always tell my kids, "Let other people tell you that you're awesome, just don't say it first" ;)

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#28

Post by erikb » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

twoquestions wrote: post #11

It doesn't help that job ads are wanting "Top 3% only!" or "Only top 1% Ninja Rockstars need apply!". Kind of reminds me of the market for singers or concert pianists, you absolutely need to be the best, even imperceptibly worse makes you unemployable. Should those of us who aren't top 5%/didn't go to a top school just find another industry, one where sub-perfect work doesn't actively make other people's jobs harder?

You must really suffer from imposter syndrome if you can't find a company that is worse than you at software development.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#29

Post by aportnoy » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

thomasedwards wrote: post #5

“More experienced engineers are more accurate about their interview performance...” Dunning–Kruger effect returns again! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Please stop with Dunning-Kruger already.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#30

Post by saulrh » Tue, Nov 06, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

twoquestions wrote: post #11

It doesn't help that job ads are wanting "Top 3% only!" or "Only top 1% Ninja Rockstars need apply!". Kind of reminds me of the market for singers or concert pianists, you absolutely need to be the best, even imperceptibly worse makes you unemployable. Should those of us who aren't top 5%/didn't go to a top school just find another industry, one where sub-perfect work doesn't actively make other people's jobs harder?

Notice that, when they say they only hire the top 1%, there's a vicious sampling bias at work: even in a worst case where they're being literal they're actually hiring the top 1% of their applicants, not the top 1% of engineers. Think about how many jobs you usually apply for before getting one. Now imagine someone that's less successful than you at getting hired and think about how many times they're interviewing. Now think about the population that the interviewer sees. Now add college students that are just practicing and people that are required to interview for every job on the board to maintain unemployment. Now think about how much time interviewing you spend for every day working and how that might change as a function of quality - staying longer at better places, maybe?

I obviously don't have any statistics, but I think I could imagine a situation where the top 95% of software people constitute the top 1% of the interviewing population. Also one where interviewers are terrible at math, but that's no surprise. Anyway, you're fine, just go for it. That fact that you are self-aware enough to worry about it puts you in good standing all by itself.