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AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

cnbc.com

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Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#81

Post by noobermin »

fanzhang wrote: post #63

The lack of confirming evidence is a strong sign the Bloomberg reporters were played. It's interesting to wonder who might have done that though -- US businesses who might gain? Those from within the administration? Regardless of the truthfulness of the report, the damage is done and the hack story fits in well for the protectionist trajectory the US is taking.

There's no need to think so big. The people who thought they might gain might have very well been Bloomberg reporters, who really wanted to believe their story was true because it would have been the scoop of a lifetime. They really should have done their homework properly instead of trying to craft a story.

Of course, if it turns out they deliberately mislead, then that makes it worse, and it was very imprudent thinking that they wouldn't be caught.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#82

Post by philwelch »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #23
jackconnor wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the only question then the answer for every major company is "guilty". I don't think doing business in china means that Bloomberg gets to make up a bunch of BS from mysterious anonymous sources without a single piece of physical evidence, wiping out billions in market value, and just call it a day and we're all supposed to believe it because they use the word "China". I think we can probably hold them, and…

It isn't really plausible that Bloomberg made up the story. They had to have a high degree of confidence to publish it. The question we all need to be asking is why they had that high degree of confidence. Where their information came from and whether or not those sources had ulterior motives to lead Bloomberg astray. I have to imagine Bloomberg is also trying to find out why their story has not matched statements by…

Yeah, my hunch (like yours) is that everyone involved--Bloomberg, Apple, AWS--believes, in good faith, in what they have stated, and have collected more than enough evidence to back those statements. Since there's a contradiction, the truth is probably fairly weird, if it's enough to provide so much conflicting evidence both ways.

The least weird conclusion is that Bloomberg connected too many dots the wrong way around and are embarrassed to admit it.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#83

Post by clamprecht »

If Bloomberg ends up retracting the story, then the new question, for me, is how did this happen? Was it simply Bloomberg trying to get views? Or is it more interesting, like did their "sources" intentionally give them a fake story in order to hurt their credibility? Or was it to cast doubt on the anti-China stories in general?

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#84

Post by jorblumesea »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #61
jackconnor wrote: post #16

There should be hundreds of thousands or millions of these hacked motherboards, and nobody has found a single one despite hardware geeks worldwide searching like it was Willy Wonka's final golden ticket. This story was bogus, it most likely came from a ton of rumors that got conflated, hence why they had to go with anonymous sources as opposed to any physical evidence. I'd be surprised if Bloomberg has any credibilit…

"There should be hundreds of thousands or millions of these hacked motherboards" No, the boards would be selectively hacked. And we know it happens because 'we' do it as well. Surely there is evidence floating around but it's also unlikely that companies would want to admit the breach. I kind of believe Apple and Amazon though, there's too much risk if they were to be caught lying. This is a weird one ...

But surely there's at least a few thousand of the hacked boards? The article mentioned a data center and entire companies being targeted. All it would take is someone to dig up some junked boards, unless they were intentionally destroyed to hide evidence. Unlike 0 days or other issues, this seems like it would be easy to reproduce. Just need to find the boards.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#86

Post by leoc »

fanzhang wrote: post #63

The lack of confirming evidence is a strong sign the Bloomberg reporters were played. It's interesting to wonder who might have done that though -- US businesses who might gain? Those from within the administration? Regardless of the truthfulness of the report, the damage is done and the hack story fits in well for the protectionist trajectory the US is taking.

It's certainly not the case that the US government has been above disinformation campaigns aimed at its own citizens even in the recent https://www.wired.co.uk/article/mirage-men https://www.dailygrail.com/2013/06/a-fractured-hall-of-mirro... or very recent https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-prog... past. Though of course there would be much more political risk in lying to Bloomberg News than in using up and throwing away an old ufologist loser like Paul Bennewitz. (Still, it's even a little suprising how, in a country which avows military patriotism as strongly as the USA, the USAF can contribute to the destruction of a patriotic WWII veteran, then publicly gloat about it afterwards, and absolutely no-one gives two shits.)

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#87

Post by paxys »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #61
jackconnor wrote: post #16

There should be hundreds of thousands or millions of these hacked motherboards, and nobody has found a single one despite hardware geeks worldwide searching like it was Willy Wonka's final golden ticket. This story was bogus, it most likely came from a ton of rumors that got conflated, hence why they had to go with anonymous sources as opposed to any physical evidence. I'd be surprised if Bloomberg has any credibilit…

"There should be hundreds of thousands or millions of these hacked motherboards" No, the boards would be selectively hacked. And we know it happens because 'we' do it as well. Surely there is evidence floating around but it's also unlikely that companies would want to admit the breach. I kind of believe Apple and Amazon though, there's too much risk if they were to be caught lying. This is a weird one ...

You just need ONE board to be able to prove it. Surely Bloomberg or their sources can get their hand on a single piece?

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#88

Post by draw_down »

jackconnor wrote: post #16

There should be hundreds of thousands or millions of these hacked motherboards, and nobody has found a single one despite hardware geeks worldwide searching like it was Willy Wonka's final golden ticket. This story was bogus, it most likely came from a ton of rumors that got conflated, hence why they had to go with anonymous sources as opposed to any physical evidence. I'd be surprised if Bloomberg has any credibilit…

Exactly- where are they?! The Bloomberg story made verifiable claims (perhaps not exactly falsifiable due to their nature), so where is the verification?

It's so strange to see people continue running with "they wouldn't have doubled down unless they were really certain, so it must be true".

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#89

Post by PeterisP »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #61
jackconnor wrote: post #16

There should be hundreds of thousands or millions of these hacked motherboards, and nobody has found a single one despite hardware geeks worldwide searching like it was Willy Wonka's final golden ticket. This story was bogus, it most likely came from a ton of rumors that got conflated, hence why they had to go with anonymous sources as opposed to any physical evidence. I'd be surprised if Bloomberg has any credibilit…

"There should be hundreds of thousands or millions of these hacked motherboards" No, the boards would be selectively hacked. And we know it happens because 'we' do it as well. Surely there is evidence floating around but it's also unlikely that companies would want to admit the breach. I kind of believe Apple and Amazon though, there's too much risk if they were to be caught lying. This is a weird one ...

Bloomberg claims that there is evidence floating around - unless they're bluffing, they should be able to show evidence of at least one such motherboard, instead of CGI graphics showing how it might look.

Have they seen any actual hard evidence? Noone is disputing that the described attack vector is possible, but if Bloomberg has not properly verified if it actually has happened, then their article becomes a lie; and if they have properly verified it (as opposed to blindly trusting unnamed sources), why are they seemingly unable to show any hard evidence or details to the public?

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#90

Post by oh_sigh »

jackconnor wrote: post #16

There should be hundreds of thousands or millions of these hacked motherboards, and nobody has found a single one despite hardware geeks worldwide searching like it was Willy Wonka's final golden ticket. This story was bogus, it most likely came from a ton of rumors that got conflated, hence why they had to go with anonymous sources as opposed to any physical evidence. I'd be surprised if Bloomberg has any credibilit…

Will they name their anonymous sources if it turns out they were played by them?
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