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You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

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Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#361

Post by alexozer »

sushid wrote: post #170
Balgair wrote: post #39

The 'politics' of tipping aside, one thing that really grinds my gears is that they calculate the tip after taxes are applied. I feel that the tips should be calculated based on the exchange I had with the establishment/person and that the taxes should considered separate from our interaction. Like, here's the 20% tip on the 100$ I spent. Not, here's the 20% tip on the $100 + 5% tax, $105 total. I know why they do th…

If there's anything I've learned through a decade of browsing Reddit, there's nothing to be gained on a discussion revolving around tipping. Feelings will be hurt, people will talk over each other, and no one goes on doing anything different than they did before. Might as well as be debating tabs vs. spaces while we're at it.

I thought it was pretty clear spaces are better?

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#362

Post by SilasX »

tptacek wrote: post #354
nihilistnarluga wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how "_hella_ expected to tip" translates to "you ought to tip". Further, I don't understand why I should take seriously the ethical claim that "one should tip service workers". Why? Why shouldn't we expect the business owner to properly price goods and services such that what I pay reflects the true cost of the labor performed? From where does my ethical commitment to an individual based solely on…

Because you know before you partake of the service what the expectations and the normed obligations are, and if you defect by availing yourself of the service and not tipping, you're just harming the worker.

"Industrywide, about a third of hotel guests leave tips for housekeepers."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/business/hotel-housekeepe...

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#363

Post by kbumsik »

acchow wrote: post #141
kbumsik wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly in Korea too. Tipping is often considered as if a generous rich guy throws their money to a poor man with sympathy. I think tipping is very rare in most of asian countries.

It used to be this way. But American tourism has spread tipping to many countries.

It is quite opposite way from the Korean's point of view - Korean tourists learn about the tipping culture when being asked for the tip by an American waiter for the first time in their life.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#364

Post by Udik »

tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

Just a "meta" consideration.

350 comments and heated discussions, embarrassing anecdotes about tipping (or not tipping) in the US, claims of tips creep from 10% to 20% and from full seated meals to coffee on the go, complaints of moral blackmail and peer pressure. Aren't all these already strong enough indications that the tipping system is bad and doesn't work? Isn't the fact that it doesn't exist almost anywhere else a proof that it's completely unnecessary?

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#365

Post by wool_gather »

pkaye wrote: post #272
ghaff wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>businesses are losing some amount of money because of tipping culture Only in the most trivial sense that people know that, between sales tax and tipping, they're going to be paying a price that's 25-30% more than what's printed on the menu. And most people have some degree of price elasticity. But I honestly can't imagine it matters much whether those adders are folded into the price up-front or you just know that…

Apparently it does make a difference or restaurants would have just raised their prices and incorporated the tips.

This is starting to happen, albeit slowly. It's tied in to a push to equalize income between the back and front of the house. In the currently-prevailing model, back of the house is totally screwed money-wise relative to the front.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#366

Post by JamesBarney »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #344
fermienrico wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This NEVER happens from a economic incentive standpoint. Restaurant owners NEVER say "Oh look, expectation for tipping in the general public is up 5% this year, let's cut down our menu prices to balance this out." I don't know what logic is behind your statement - could you please elaborate?

Not 'this year', but 'this decade'. > Restaurant owners NEVER say "Oh look, expectation for tipping in the general public is up 5% this year, let's cut down our menu prices to balance this out." What they do is take advantage of their ability to cut server pay instead of increasing menu prices, when that is possible. And higher tips make more of that possible. Are you saying that restaurant owners are charging the sa…

Waiters take home ~$20/hr. If tipping culture changed such that waiters made $25/hr the restaurant can't reduce prices to compensate because the are already being paid the minimum wage of 2.15. They can't legally cut server pay. Likewise if tipping culture changes such that waiters made 15/hr they wouldn't get a $5/hr raise, because servers are already overpaid relative to equivalent untipped jobs.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#367

Post by nashashmi »

jjuhl wrote: post #17

No guilt. No tip. Never. If they want more than the listed price they should raise the listed price. Social customs/expectations/guilt/whatever be damned. I never tip. Never have, never will.

I knew someone who was a waiter at one time working full time at a restaurant. When he began work, he found some customers would not leave tips. So he would cordially ask the customers if anything was wrong with their service. And inform them that for people in his line of work where they serve their customers, their earnings are mostly based on tips.

Minimum wage is different for tip receiving employees, but if the tips do not add up to normal minimum wage, then the employer is required to supplement their paychecks until they hit minimum wage.

So if you like the service that the waiter brought you, you got to tip. The money goes to them only. If you get a haircut, then you got to tip if the barber/stylist went a couple of steps further and made sure you got the haircut you like. You got to show your appreciation for workers who went above and beyond their requirements to serve you better.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#368

Post by simonsarris »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #327
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Baristas were non-existent 30 years ago.

Espresso been around since 1903?

Kevin is right, at least in terms of terminology: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=barista&year_s...

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#369

Post by dingaling »

tptacek wrote: post #258
jasode wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US tipping is not complicated. [...] just always tip. Anywhere there's a tip line. Well, it's been too complicated for me because the comments in this thread show I've been doing it wrong. For example, I sometimes picked up "to go" orders from Chili's restaurant[1]. In my mind, if I sat down to eat, I tipped the server. On the other hand, if I phoned in an order and picked it up, I didn't tip . Yes, I noticed that…

You want to feel real great? Here's a question: do you always tip your hotel housekeeping? It's gotten harder over the last 10 years since we're carrying so much less cash, and there's no tip line on the hotel bill. But you are hella expected to tip housekeeping: that is a rough job, and a very poorly treated workforce.

> do you always tip your hotel housekeeping?

Being UKian I didn't even know that this was a concept.

The hotel advertises a per-night fee, I pay it on departure.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#370

Post by zbentley »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #247
tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

> US tipping is not complicated. I'd actually say it wasn't complicated, until technology like this made the experience awful. Before this tech existed, I don't ever recall being verbally asked for a tip, and if I had I would have thought it to be the height of rudeness. I certainly don't ever recall being asked for a tip while the machine then broadcasts your tipped amount to everyone else in line behind you. I get…

> Before this tech existed, I don't ever recall being verbally asked for a tip

What about haircuts, yard work, and any other often-tipped service profession? "How much would you like me to charge your card?" is, and always was in my experience, super common in those areas--and that's the same thing as asking for a tip.

Hell, if you pay cash at a restaurant, "do you want change for that?" is similar.

I think it has always been more or less that way, and that's fine. A button on a screen or a coded question aren't much different if you're paying attention, and not having to do the annoying indirect-etiquette game probably makes life easier/less awkward for people receiving tips.

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