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You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

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Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#341

Post by fermienrico »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #318
PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A very easy, relatively pleasant way to get through life in the US if you're well-off enough that you routinely buy coffee in expensive coffee shops: just always tip. Anywhere there's a tip line. You never have to figure anything out, and sometimes people really appreciate it. This echoes the sentiment that 'if you can't afford to pay a X% tip, you can't afford to buy the product'. Problem is that it seems to keep g…

Higher tipping expectations are generally matched by higher discounts on the pre-tip price. So there is no limit, and that's not itself an issue.

This NEVER happens from a economic incentive standpoint.

Restaurant owners NEVER say "Oh look, expectation for tipping in the general public is up 5% this year, let's cut down our menu prices to balance this out."

I don't know what logic is behind your statement - could you please elaborate?

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#342

Post by b1r6 »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #288
syedkarim wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked my way through college as a waiter and bartender. My first job was as a golf caddie. I've dried cars at car washes and operated a rickshaw. In all of those cases, there is an understanding that a tip is part of the purchase. More importantly, there is some actual work being done or service rendered for the tip (less so for bartenders, which do get paid above minimum wage). Buying a muffin at a coffee shop an…

> More importantly, there is some actual work being done or service rendered for the tip. No, that isn’t for the tip, that is literally the job they are paid to do by their employer. Choosing to tip should only be if they have gone above and beyond what you would expect. I’m from the UK and find the US tipping culture bizzare and stressful - I had truly terrible service in a restaurant in New York once and they liter…

I'm saddened that this is part of what you remember when you think about visiting the US. You absolutely should not tip if the potential recipient of the tip treated you poorly.

They were bullying you by threatening to call the police. The cops would have been annoyed to show up for that, and nothing about what you did is illegal.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#343

Post by tptacek »

comex wrote: post #330
tptacek wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be the person who doesn't tip the counter-service worker if you like. The iPad didn't create that tipping expectation; before there were iPads, there were glass jars full of cash. People probably won't judge you for not tipping at a coffee shop. Like I said, I find it's easier to go through life just tipping wherever it's asked, and not worrying whether I'm being an asshole to service workers. I'm not saying…

The glass jar was clearly optional, from an etiquette perspective; nobody will judge you for walking away without dropping anything in it (except perhaps loose change). iPads are different in two ways. First, they make the experience more closely resemble tipping at a restaurant. Since etiquette fundamentally relies on on implications and expectations, that’s a lot more significant than it would be in other contexts.…

I guess I see the point. But why not just tip? The coffee shop tip is like, a buck. The regulars at the coffee shop were already tipping, like, a buck every time they got coffee.

The countervailing force the iPad is addressing is the fact that customers aren't carrying cash anymore. Without the prompt, counter workers aren't going to get tipped at all.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#344

Post by Dylan16807 »

fermienrico wrote: post #341
Dylan16807 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher tipping expectations are generally matched by higher discounts on the pre-tip price. So there is no limit, and that's not itself an issue.

This NEVER happens from a economic incentive standpoint. Restaurant owners NEVER say "Oh look, expectation for tipping in the general public is up 5% this year, let's cut down our menu prices to balance this out." I don't know what logic is behind your statement - could you please elaborate?

Not 'this year', but 'this decade'.

> Restaurant owners NEVER say "Oh look, expectation for tipping in the general public is up 5% this year, let's cut down our menu prices to balance this out."

What they do is take advantage of their ability to cut server pay instead of increasing menu prices, when that is possible. And higher tips make more of that possible.

Are you saying that restaurant owners are charging the same amount that they would if tips were 10% lower? Because I'm pretty sure margins are low enough to make that impossible.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#345

Post by euroclydon »

rabidonrails wrote: post #57
rayiner wrote: post #23

Own your privilege and tip the goddamn 15-20%. If you can afford to spend $3 on a coffee, you can afford to spend $3.60 on a coffee. You almost certainly make a lot more than the guy or girl behind the counter. (I love the iPad payment thingy because I always feel guilty never having cash to put in a tip jar.)

Your response misses the point. It isn't that someone who pays $3 for coffee can't afford the extra 60c but rather that the coffee should just cost 3.60. Further, is there a difference between someone serving a full meal and someone that is just punching buttons?

Tips are a low tech way to scale a service worker's pay with the volume the store does that day.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#346

Post by joezydeco »

tptacek wrote: post #258
jasode wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US tipping is not complicated. [...] just always tip. Anywhere there's a tip line. Well, it's been too complicated for me because the comments in this thread show I've been doing it wrong. For example, I sometimes picked up "to go" orders from Chili's restaurant[1]. In my mind, if I sat down to eat, I tipped the server. On the other hand, if I phoned in an order and picked it up, I didn't tip . Yes, I noticed that…

You want to feel real great? Here's a question: do you always tip your hotel housekeeping? It's gotten harder over the last 10 years since we're carrying so much less cash, and there's no tip line on the hotel bill. But you are hella expected to tip housekeeping: that is a rough job, and a very poorly treated workforce.

Even worse - do you tip every day? Since you can't be sure it's the same housekeeper every morning, how do you distribute the cash fairly?

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#347

Post by threatofrain »

bootlooped wrote: post #7

I dislike the tip-at-purchase-time paradigm. I haven't even seen my order yet, how am I supposed to evaluate how much of a tip it warranted? But that gets to the heart of it really: tipping is more about subsidizing payroll than rewarding good service.

Even if the tip were scheduled differently, how often do you find yourself adjusting tip in an attempt to adjust service?

If you get good service, will good tip ensure a good experience the next time around? If someone gave you bad service, do you make it known? I think most would prefer not to say anything.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#348

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

[deleted]

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#349

Post by splonk »

adameast9000 wrote: post #312
tptacek wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to feel real great? Here's a question: do you always tip your hotel housekeeping? It's gotten harder over the last 10 years since we're carrying so much less cash, and there's no tip line on the hotel bill. But you are hella expected to tip housekeeping: that is a rough job, and a very poorly treated workforce.

This brings up a somewhat related question in my mind... how is my %20 iPad tip at the coffee shop treated differently than the amount I paid? Conventionally a tip was something you could physically separate from the amount you paid for the product/service... but now you're trusting the establishment to make sure it gets to the employee? This obviously sucks for the employee bc taxes, but I have a hard time imagining…

Pretty much any modern point of sale system (e.g., anything on a tablet) is going to be separating out the tips correctly for accounting purposes. If anything, you should be _more_ sure that the employees are getting their full tip amounts when there's a stronger paper trail for it. It's the cash tips at some mom and pop joint with handwritten receipts that have some chance of getting intercepted.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#350

Post by nihilistnarluga »

tptacek wrote: post #258
jasode wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US tipping is not complicated. [...] just always tip. Anywhere there's a tip line. Well, it's been too complicated for me because the comments in this thread show I've been doing it wrong. For example, I sometimes picked up "to go" orders from Chili's restaurant[1]. In my mind, if I sat down to eat, I tipped the server. On the other hand, if I phoned in an order and picked it up, I didn't tip . Yes, I noticed that…

You want to feel real great? Here's a question: do you always tip your hotel housekeeping? It's gotten harder over the last 10 years since we're carrying so much less cash, and there's no tip line on the hotel bill. But you are hella expected to tip housekeeping: that is a rough job, and a very poorly treated workforce.

I don't understand how "_hella_ expected to tip" translates to "you ought to tip". Further, I don't understand why I should take seriously the ethical claim that "one should tip service workers". Why? Why shouldn't we expect the business owner to properly price goods and services such that what I pay reflects the true cost of the labor performed? From where does my ethical commitment to an individual based solely on their occupational sector arise? Why service workers over customer support staff at a call center in India? These ethical claims seem to arise from arbitrary cultural norms.
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