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You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

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Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#201

Post by dragonwriter »

markbnj wrote: post #142

As the father of a current bartender/waitress and the husband of a former I'd like to say: please don't use the servers as a lever to change this thing, because if they couldn't rely on tips they couldn't do the job. And then I thought about it a bit. The question I don't have an answer to: if people stopped tipping tomorrow, and the average tip was distributed somehow into the price of the food, would establishments…

> As the father of a current bartender/waitress and the husband of a former I'd like to say: please don't use the servers as a lever to change this thing, because if they couldn't rely on tips they couldn't do the job.

In purely effectiveness terms, that's why they are the perfect lever—in the current pay regime, they can't afford to do the job without tips, so a sufficiently broad practice of withholding tips that renders them unreliable for even the workers that would previously thrive under tipping will force labor pressure on businesses to end the current tip-expected pay regime and collapse the tipping system.

Now, the interim state might be near-apocalyptic for servers, but it there is probably no more effective way to bring the tipping system down.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#202

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

sharemywin wrote: post #65
dwaltrip wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only "stiffing" if we start with the assumption they are supposed to be tipped. I'm not well-versed in the history of coffee shops, but it seems to me that it is not a well-established norm -- as compared to bars and restaurants, for example. But I'm happy to be corrected if I'm mistaken about this.

A lot of states are paid less if it's a job with tips: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage

Also on that page:

>If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour during any week, the employer is required to increase cash wages to compensate

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#203

Post by i88y6 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #184
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ouch, having worked in cafes and restaurants as an undergrad I pretty much always tip 20%. Is it absurd? Of course, but given how badly most waitstaff are paid, the idea that you will somehow eliminate the practice by stiffing a few barristas seems both sadistic and highly unlikely to change the world. Until robots hand me muffins, I accept it as a tax on eating out.

In my neck of the woods, servers make $12/hour. Before tips, because LA no longer lets restaurants rely on tips for wages. (And that's increasing to $15/hour by 2020). So unless service is really good, I default to 10%. And quite frankly, it's disgusting that the person who spends may 30 seconds providing service gets X% of the bill when 99% of the work is done in the kitchen by guys who don't get paid anything extra…

> it's disgusting that the person who spends may 30 seconds providing service gets X% of the bill

Yikes,wait till you find out how much the ACH and CC networks get for providing a fully automated service.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#204

Post by nedwin »

starpilot wrote: post #87
CryoLogic wrote: post #19

If anyone here has been to Japan, tipping is handled much more elegantly and with a lot more business integrity. Instead of guilt-tripping customers into tipping, businesses in Japan up their prices if they need more money. I remember once when I was in Osaka I was at a really good sushi place that I had visited several times prior. There was no tip option on the receipt (didn't see it anywhere in Japan) and there wa…

No tipping policies in the US will never work as long as tips are untaxed. Otherwise, it is a lose-lose. Diners pay more than with tipping, servers' take-home pay is reduced. That is why most restaurants that have tried no-tipping have gone back to it.

Tips are taxable.

You could probably get away with shortchanging the IRS where tips were all cash but with cash declining on a value + volume perspective I think those days will be behind us soon enough.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#205

Post by ghaff »

mikeash wrote: post #147
fx32s wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should you tip the hair stylists though. Isn't the service exactly what you pay for in the first place (same as taxi/uber)? For food I can kind of understand of since they decouple serving and preparation + ingredients. Note that I am not American and am new to tipping. Just curious

It's really just a matter of whether it's customary, which is only loosely related to whether it actually makes any sense. Your taxi driver gets most if not all of your fare, but it's still expected to tip them. A grocery store cashier gets none of your payment directly, but you don't tip them. Don't try to make sense of it, just do what others do.

Then there are a fair number of cases where reasonable people disagree. Maid at hotel, others at hotels/parking attendants/etc., Uber/Lyft, the subject of this article, limo driver, bartender (in a bar or at an event), and so forth. You can tip in all those situations but I'd argue it's not the strong expectation that tipping at a sit-down restaurant is.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#206

Post by tedunangst »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #181
EpicEng wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes to the workers though. Are you claiming that the owners are not distributing them back?

Are they? Why do you expect they do?

All the servers I know seem to expect credit card tips to eventually appear on their paycheck.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#207

Post by EpicEng »

DtnB wrote: post #187
EpicEng wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes to the workers though. Are you claiming that the owners are not distributing them back?

Not the parent but: I would imply exactly such a thing. Just like how, in some/most states you are supposed to pay a tipped employee minimum wage if they don't make the equivalent in tips. As far as I can tell from having worked in food service: that payout never happens.

I was a waiter for years. I personally never made under min, but I knew people who did. They got paid. I also got paid every cent of every cc tip. What are you basing this on?

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#208

Post by Z-Widwil »

pbiggar wrote: post #80
jjuhl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's simply not my problem. Why should I care? If they are unhappy with their wages they should complain to their employer. It's not my job to fix their wages.

> "That's simply not my problem" That's an unfortunate attitude. I thought a lot like you, but when I realized the wage disparity here - I could afford to go eat at these fancy places, which my servers definitely could not - I chose to make it my problem. Other people's problems are not yours, but if you can choose to help (for example, if you can afford to help), you should.

What if you're not eating at fancy places?

Now, I'm not suggesting they provide any less of a service, but I've eaten at taco carts that expect the same level of tipping (15-20%). These are places that the server definitely _could_ also eat at. If they are making the same amount of money (and possibly more), why is it still the customers responsibility to tip? At that point it isn't for the employee to make up for low wages. It is also usually paid prior to receiving your food, so it isn't for improved service. In this case the business could increase the base price and reject tips. If they directed that money to employees it would make budgeting easier for them and make no difference to the customers.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#209

Post by tptacek »

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity on this point; you'll have to rely on context clues to determine whether and how much of a tip is expected. You can reasonably withhold a tip from someone who is actively hostile or incompetent, but really all you're doing is making yourself feel better. If payment and the tip is expected up-front, you can either buy into the cost-sharing dynamic of tipping, or you can not.

Very few people in the US are going to admire a principled stance you take against tipping. The moral of the opening breakfast scene in Reservoir Dogs was not that Steve Buscemi was a smart and principled dude. Harvey Keitel was the one you were expected to admire in that scene.

A very easy, relatively pleasant way to get through life in the US if you're well-off enough that you routinely buy coffee in expensive coffee shops: just always tip. Anywhere there's a tip line. You never have to figure anything out, and sometimes people really appreciate it.

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