Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#421

Post by disposition2 » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 5:04 PM UTC

raquo wrote: post #250

dreamcompiler wrote: post #119

I just replaced the keyboards in two older (2011 and 2013) long out-of-warranty MacBook Pros. Both required the complete disassembly of the machine. One fix cost about $150 in parts and the other was less. If I'd been required to let Apple do the work, each machine's repair would have cost at least $500, and that assumes Apple would even have been willing to repair such old machines. Apple just gave me yet another re…

Did you actually get a quote / estimate from Apple?

Last year, my macbook (mid-2012 non-retina) starting acting funky (wouldn't boot half the time and would lock up intermittently). I took it in to the Apple Store (after I had made a reservation and had to wait a week) and the technician looked at it for a few minutes and said it was probably a logic board problem and that it would be about $900 IIRC and suggested I not even bother as it would be ineligible for repair soon anyways...suggested I just buy a new one.

I found a 3rd party repair shop down the road. Took it in, they did some diagnostics on it while I was standing there and confirmed it was a harddrive cable issue...they said it was a common issue for these models. Quoted me $100 (mostly for labor) and said I could wait or come back tomorrow...I decided on the latter. On my way home, they called and said it was ready for pickup. They said the cable was under warranty and bring it back if I have any more issues...fingers crossed it has been running great ever since.

I really enjoy my macbook, I had wanted one for years and finally saved enough money to purchase one in 2012 (I believe it was about $1200). I also made upgrades to the HD (changed to SSD) and upgraded the RAM as I didn't have the $ to buy all the upgrades at time of purchase but knew I wanted to make it better over the years. It has allowed me to work on iOS and use a great OS while still have access to UNIX bash. That said, I don't think I would buy the latest model...probably out of principal (I disagree with the high cost, the inability to upgrade the machine and the gimmicks being added rather than making it a Pro device). I might try to find a 2015 model the day my 2012 dies but I don't really think I could justify a $3000 purchase on an item that I can only take back to the manufacturer for a solution...should a problem ever arise.

I doubt any of this matters to you, just wanted to share my experience.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#422

Post by bfrog » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 5:11 PM UTC

Meanwhile fixing anything in this x220 has been as a simple as going on amazon. Keyboard? amazon. Battery? Amazon. Display? Amazon. Plastic enclosure? Amazon.

I've nearly replaced every damn part but the motherboard in it at this point, and its still cheaper to own than a new macbook.

My T460 sadly seems to have gone the apple direction. I don't want to buy a new $1K laptop every few years just because a small part broke or it needs a battery replacement, that's a ridiculous waste.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#423

Post by amatecha » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

This is pretty messed up. DRM for hardware. I just picked up a couple SGI workstations earlier this week, both built in 1996. If SGI had implemented some DRM like this, it would be quite the uphill battle to even make use of these old systems that often require replacement parts to get running. There's no excuse to tolerate these harmful practices.

I have a collection of some 20+ classic Macs, all of which I have performed some degree of hardware replacements/repair on. No way I'd have access to some Apple "authorized repair technician" services as an enthusiast collector who just likes old computers.

Then there's the family members and friends whose computers I fix as a favor -- guess they can shell out $hundreds, instead of buying a cheap replacement part and having it installed for free, right? Assuming Apple even still produces the respective component! :\

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#424

Post by bigbugbag » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 5:19 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #294

bigbugbag wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I deal with this grandparents videocall situation, none have an apple product but android tablets and linux computers and it's working as intended. I also deal with how every macbook plugging the ethernet cable on my home network just crashes with the multilingual error message explaining that nothing can be done except turning off the macbook, no other device does this, apple device privilege I guess. Do I have to m…

My elders don’t even read English, I just don’t see how Google and Windows offerings are as usable as Apples. And in fact experience shows they weren’t, I tried and all the login and quality issues made me go out and set everyone up with FaceTime. Although their recent decision to hide the switch camera button was asinine, they mostly kept it clean and consistent and easy to use. Same with iOS. If I give the same eld…

My elders do not understand english either and requires fully localized software.

I do not know about google or windows or apple offerings, I stay away from both. Does facetime allows to videocall outside of apple walled garden or is it an apple only feature ? As approximatively 1 person own an iphone among people they stay in touch with, this would be an issue.

I gave my elders linux computers more than 10 years ago, they are 92 and 93 years now, and not a malware issue once.

Claiming that apple popularity is based on merit alone and not on marketing is quite the extraordinary claim, so allow me to ask for some fact supporting this claim.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#425

Post by floatingatoll » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 5:22 PM UTC

bsheir74 wrote: post #11

floatingatoll wrote: post #8

This is an excellent step for protecting MacBook Pro users against hardware invasions (such as US and China border authorities). If you trust the user to replace hardware, you permit the user’s hardware to be altered by malicious actors. By restricting final approval of hardware replacement to a vetted subset of all humanity, you ensure that it’s vastly more difficult for the vast majority of malicious humanity. Yes,…

Prohibiting 3rd party repairs doesn't make you any safer than you are now. If you were concerned about hardware attacks you could continue to bring your computer to the apple store, and never have to worry. All this action does is remove options for those of us who do wanna fix their own machines. And this is assuming you trust apple to inspect their parts closely. Their computers are still made in china. Why couldn'…

I hope you see the irony in asking me whether my mom is a spy. Your question is rhetorical and unhelpful to this conversation. If she isn’t, the answer is no. If she is, the answer is still no. Please don’t use conversational warfare tactics here.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#426

Post by bigbugbag » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #291

bigbugbag wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unique hardware Id is incredibly useful to identify and track devices and people around.

Yes, so if you get your Mac or iPhone stolen it’s useless to the thief. This already happens with iCloud Activation Lock, but people just disassemble the motherboard and sell parts like the screen instead.

How exactly is that helping getting the device back ? or the data ?

How is that supposed to work anyways ? I only know a few stories of stolen iphones and macbooks and thieves had no issue using the devices or selling them.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#427

Post by michaelmrose » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

jen729w wrote: post #281

bigbugbag wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd mention darktable[1] and bitwig[2], both are cross-platform linux/win/macos. [1]: https://www.darktable.org/ [2]: https://www.bitwig.com/

Nothing like a cross-platform app for that real smooth user experience.

It's not like java gtk or qt were a thing.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#428

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

bigbugbag wrote: post #424

lotsofpulp wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My elders don’t even read English, I just don’t see how Google and Windows offerings are as usable as Apples. And in fact experience shows they weren’t, I tried and all the login and quality issues made me go out and set everyone up with FaceTime. Although their recent decision to hide the switch camera button was asinine, they mostly kept it clean and consistent and easy to use. Same with iOS. If I give the same eld…

My elders do not understand english either and requires fully localized software. I do not know about google or windows or apple offerings, I stay away from both. Does facetime allows to videocall outside of apple walled garden or is it an apple only feature ? As approximatively 1 person own an iphone among people they stay in touch with, this would be an issue. I gave my elders linux computers more than 10 years ago…

I'm not claiming it's based on marketing alone, but I am claiming there is a significant difference in the usability of their products, and that contributes heavily to their success.

I'm certainly not going to be able to produce any studies, therefore I'm responding with actual occurrences which led to me Apple as my final solution. What happens when the linux computers hard drive fails? With an iPad, you tell your grandparents to go buy a new one and put the iCloud log in, and in an hour it's back to the way it was. I don't want to deal with backup and restore, neither do most people I know.

What happens when they bust their phone? Go to the mobile phone store and get hassled by a minimum wage kid trying to trick the elders into more commissionable services? Have them call Samsung or Google 800#, wait on hold, have to do shipping and receiving? Or tell them to go to the Apple store and get it swapped out?

These are all real life experiences that are much improved with Apple's devices. If you can afford it, and are not interested in tinkering, then I can't recommend anything else.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#429

Post by chiefalchemist » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 5:54 PM UTC

swift532 wrote: post #330

chiefalchemist wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintainability is a feature, so to speak. Another option would be to purchase the product that best fits your needs, including warranty, repair, parts, upgrading, etc. If Brand A decides it's best to not provide Feature X and you __need__ Feature X, then you can decide that Brand A isn't for you. If anything should be legislated it should be publishing the details about warranty coverage, average cost or repair, mos…

As a "consumer" who develops iOS apps, what alternative choice to a mac can I make? With monopolies that tend to crop up these days, the phrase that customers have a choice rings hollow.

Today? Few. However, in doing this, Apple is creating opportunity - provided the market wants an alternative.

That being said, the arc of my point is, that if there's going to be legislation it should start with information that enables the consumer, not inject Uncle Sam into another problem that it's unprepared and unable to solve.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#430

Post by toasterlovin » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

mmontagna9 wrote: post #410

toasterlovin wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, statistically speaking, 0% of the population wants to tinker with their computer. Neither you nor anybody else on this website is normal.

Tell that to my 70 year old grandmother who has replaced both the motherboard and hard drive in her Lenovo desktop. If you design a somewhat reasonably easy to repair computer people are more than happy to fix it themselves. It's only because of the difficulty of repairing apple products that people shy away from the idea.

Or maybe your 70 year old grandmother is a several standard deviation outlier and that has something to do with you commenting on this website, which is frequented by several standard deviation outliers.