Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#401

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 2:34 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #341

foepys wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For this reason MacBooks aren't really business devices in my opinion. What kind of business is okay with the service Apple provides? You have to send one employee to the Apple Store (if there is even one located near you), maybe get a replacement device, maybe wait for 2 weeks for it to return? This is so much more expensive than buying Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. with on-site support. On top of that you often get repair…

What do you mean? Large enterprises will surely staff and train their own Mac support staff. I went to my companies walk up support desk in my building for an HP Zbook issue. They had a few Macs taken apart they were fixing. Apple stores are for consumers like you and me. No large company is going to send an employee there. It’s likely the company has support contract with Apple or a 3rd party. Beside you can just ov…

[deleted]

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#402

Post by abrowne » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

raquo wrote: post #250

dreamcompiler wrote: post #119

I just replaced the keyboards in two older (2011 and 2013) long out-of-warranty MacBook Pros. Both required the complete disassembly of the machine. One fix cost about $150 in parts and the other was less. If I'd been required to let Apple do the work, each machine's repair would have cost at least $500, and that assumes Apple would even have been willing to repair such old machines. Apple just gave me yet another re…

Did you actually get a quote / estimate from Apple?

But the heat sink is just (1) remove bottom case, (2) unplug battery, (3a) remove heat sink (if Retina model) or (3b) remove motherboard, then heat sink from the other side. The keyboard is part of the top case, which is the part everything else is attached to.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#403

Post by prolikewh0a » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

zetabyte wrote: post #380

How this kind of business tactic is not illegal? I think this is a clearly violation of user's right to repair.

Freedom.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#404

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 2:43 PM UTC

dirkgently wrote: post #375

lotsofpulp wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically everyone in my family used to call me for tech support (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins), but in the past 3 years or so, I’ve convinced everyone to iPhones and iPads and MacBook Airs, they have have basically zero tech support calls to me. Everything just works as long as they keep track of their Apple ID and iCloud login. There is definitely value to not spending any time or brain cycles worr…

After upgrading every older family member to Chromebook, I have had zero calls for support. Apple isn't the only game in town.

Unfortunately, Google has lost all of its goodwill with lack of software updates for their products, lack of battery/power efficiency, and constantly changing names, designs, apps. I tried it, people in my network tried to invest their time into it, at the end everyone just said screw it and went with Apple products. Bonus is Apple stuff re-sells for quite a bit also or lasts much longer, so effectively it doesn't actually cost more.

I know I sound like a fanboy, but after playing with Nexus phones, Xperia phones, Android tablets, Surface book, Lenovo Yogapad, I have decided that I no longer want to invest anymore time into figuring out how to get all of these to work the way I want them to, and the extra cost (if that) for Apple stuff is much cheaper than the time I used to waste on the other stuff.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#405

Post by busterarm » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #224

busterarm wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case anyone asks: XMonad

Did you already use haskell?

Never. I had a vague, casual familiarity with the syntax and got together a working configuration for my monitor setup and preferences in 20 minutes though.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#406

Post by CRUDite » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 2:46 PM UTC

Can anyone offer advice? I am about to enter a bootcamp, rails based, with an attached dev company / set of instructors. There is one dev using windows/Linux, several students on Ubuntu and the rest on Macs. I need a new laptop to participate. I use windows (desktop) though have used unix in the dim distant past. I am looking at a 13" i5 8gb 256gb 2017 mbp (max budget) vs a dual boot Win / Linux machine (hp envy)with an i7 and 16mb ram, full hd 13" touch screen (also with soldered ram but removable ssd). If 99% of the people use Macs I assume this makes it an obvious choice?

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#407

Post by tossimba » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

systemtest wrote: post #355

chewyland wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Bulgarian MacBook adventure was actually pretty great. I needed an arrow key for my 2014 MacBook and contacted a shop in Sofia. They were happy to ship (they had it in sock) it to their sister shop in Varna (closer to me) and once I got there the key and labor to replace it (granted, it only took them 3 minutes) was less than €2. Yes, two Euros.

Did they let you keep the sock?

go back to reddit

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#408

Post by nickflood » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 2:54 PM UTC

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #400

nickflood wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out the XPS 15 9570 (2018 version), it has wi-fi card, SSD and RAM all slotted and standard form-factor. And every other part is cheap and available to be bought and replaced if not by you, then by anyone who has the skill. Apple and other manufacturers make it hard to believe that a slick light modern laptop can't be easy to repair, but it in fact can be, if you engineer it to be serviced on-site.

Then why hasn't a manufacturer done it? I still haven't found a laptop that has a trackpad anywhere was good as a Macbook. Still waiting. I'm still waiting for this mythical huge market of people who want to tinker and repair everything themselves. It doesn't exist. It's a vocal minority on here, and nothing more.

My point is that it has been done, repeatedly, by many manufacturers over many years. You can find a YouTube channel called Dave2D, the guy reviews Windows and Mac laptops and always takes the cover off and shows upgrade options, most 15" laptops have RAM, SSD and Wi-Fi upgradeable. Until about a year ago, in 13" systems, the SSD AND Wi-Fi were also upgradeable but lately they've been soldering the Wi-Card onboard (it still is a standard form-factor and you could replace the Wi-Fi with another one using a hot air rework station).

The trackpad is unrelated to repairability. In my opinion, XPS 15 has a very good trackpad which closely matches MacBook's. My thinking about why MacBook's trackpads are better is that there are two reasons - one is that Apple holds some kind of patent on some kind of tech or way of making trackpads (they bought a manufacturer long ago), plus there's a problem with slow adoption of the new scrolling APIs by Windows app developers. All of the UWP apps are fine by default, but the older way of writing UI in Win32 apps leads to them not being able to retrofit the smooth scrolling into the apps. Even Windows Explorer's scrolling is quite bad in this regard compared to Finder.

This really is a personal question of whether it's fine for you to sacrifice some things for others. I know, I prefer to be able to replace the keyboard on the laptop myself with a $20 part instead of $150 part (and lots of hassle where you can permanently damage the Mac in the process), but some people would actually not care about that. What I adressed in the parent comment were the facts that there are in fact quite a number of laptops that are repairable and upgradeable right now on the market, and they've got little in terms of compromises built in.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#409

Post by teh_klev » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 2:57 PM UTC

srazzaque wrote: post #398

Reading this I've grown even more appreciative of how easy ThinkPads are to repair/upgrade. Almost encouraged, given the many guides and YouTube videos available, and ultimately it's a cost saver to them. And to all those that have moaned about the Linux desktop, I recently upgraded my ssd on my x260. End to end - circa 2.5 hours (a lot of that hands off). Fresh install of Fedora WS, with all packages and home direct…

I installed Windows 10 on my old Dell Vostro 1720 (purchased around 2010) with a new SSD. There was minimal intervention by me. Within 30-40 mins I had a usable functioning system, connected to the internet etc.

I kicked off Windows update in the background and it chugged away with no prompting. I will admit this took a while but only because the ISO I have is Windows 10 RTM from 2015. It would likely have been quicker with a more up-to-date ISO with a later build.

The thing is it all depends on the hardware. If you're using more esoteric kit then you're likely to have a few more speedbumps regardless of OS.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#410

Post by mmontagna9 » Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

toasterlovin wrote: post #132

paavoova wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely baffling how so many seemingly educated, knowledgeable people such as those found in tech can support these anti-user practices via their support of Apple's products. It goes further than just Apple's hardware products: some people prefer to build "Hackintosh" systems (OSX running on non-Apple hardware) and a common problem is dealing with wifi-adapter whitelists. Why would you ever want to consider u…

Because, statistically speaking, 0% of the population wants to tinker with their computer. Neither you nor anybody else on this website is normal.

Tell that to my 70 year old grandmother who has replaced both the motherboard and hard drive in her Lenovo desktop. If you design a somewhat reasonably easy to repair computer people are more than happy to fix it themselves. It's only because of the difficulty of repairing apple products that people shy away from the idea.