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Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

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Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#271

Post by ssijak »

King-Aaron wrote: post #229
jillesvangurp wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how hard these things are getting to repair and how long it takes, I think you could argue that Apple should just offer to replace faulty devices with new ones. Having a pro device out of action for more than a week is just not acceptable. If it breaks, I want to have the replacement up and running ASAP. If Apple can then repair and refurbish the original at their own leisurely pace, fine. That will also put th…

> my 2017 MBP keyboard is starting to become faulty. I've been dreading having to turn it in because I actually need this thing up and running. My '15 MBP retina had it's keyboard and trackpad shit itself about 12 months after I purchased it. It was becoming apparent at the time that a) apple wouldn't repair it (they told me that I must have damaged it myself so they wouldn't do a warranty job, before even inspecting…

Good luck with dell warranty/service.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#272

Post by bigbugbag »

wrs wrote: post #73
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #40

So, with more of this happening, I have a bigger question for HN. Why does used Apple hardware command a premium, even years later? Is this really come down to status? I don't think I need to discuss the anti-user features that Apple does. This crowd is more than aware.

Because it’s pretty great hardware. And if you price out trying to duplicate it, without arbitrarily discounting for features you don’t want, it’s not even much of a premium.

I cannot remember apple offering great hardware in the not so distant past, what hardware are you referring to ?

My experience is that apple hardware had limitation that other hardware did not, and for a much higher price tag.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#273

Post by Yetanfou »

praseodym wrote: post #207
andr wrote: post #93

The impact of this will be much bigger outside of the US, as most countries outside of North America do not have a single Apple Store. In those countries, usually there is a licensed repair provider, but the customer experience can be drastically different. In Bulgaria, I've had to wait of over 3 weeks for a simple in-warranty repair of a MacBook, like a keyboard replacement. Using unlicensed repair stores has been t…

The three Apple Stores in The Netherlands so popular that it is impossible to even get an appointment at the Genius Bar. You’ll have to wait for new slots to become available at the end of their 7-day window. When you finally have your appointment after a week there’s usually another 20min+ minute wait before the busy Geniuses can speak to you. Fortunately common iOS repairs (like a display replacement) can often be…

Fortunately there is an easy solution to this conundrum: stop buying products which can only be repaired by "geniuses" in a "licensed shop". The same spiel was tried by car manufacturers where it was quashed by legal requirements to open up for repair by third parties. It is currently being tried by agricultural manufacturers (John Deere being a well-known and not so well-loved example) which try to use firmware licenses to keep farmers from repairing or enhancing their equipment without giving Deere its pound of flesh. This practice will hopefully meet the same end as the automotive equivalent although there is a chance that lobbyists for the industry manage to buy themselves a reprieve given that the market is a lot smaller and as such the buyers don't represent as many votes. It may be clear that there is no Deere on my farm, nor will there be one for as long as they keep up these shenanigans. The only apples here are the ones on the trees, free to be handled by mere mortals.

Come to think of it I seem to remember the Bible warning us about certain fruits in Genesis 3:3 - "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#275

Post by simonh »

muse900 wrote: post #169
andr wrote: post #93

The impact of this will be much bigger outside of the US, as most countries outside of North America do not have a single Apple Store. In those countries, usually there is a licensed repair provider, but the customer experience can be drastically different. In Bulgaria, I've had to wait of over 3 weeks for a simple in-warranty repair of a MacBook, like a keyboard replacement. Using unlicensed repair stores has been t…

Totally agree, and the more I think about it, the more I feel that apple products have started becoming inaccessible to me too. From what I understand they want to protect their brand by building quality and repairing with quality as well. Issue is that they are lacking on employees for what they want to do. A week ago I was in the apple store in London, a guy next to me bought one of their new flagships through o2 a…

This is due to liability law. O2 is liable for the condition fo the phone they sold you, but if Apple take on the repair they adopt liability. Apple has a contract with O2 to repair the phone, not with you whom they don't have a contractual relationship with. They can't just waive that contractual relationship for every singe purchaser of Apple products from third parties world wide, it would open them up to a lot of risk. Suppose O2 screwed up warehousing and damaged a whole batch of iPhones somehow and then sold them to customers, Apple would end up liable for that. If you want a contractual relationship with Apple, just buy the phone from Apple.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#276

Post by crooked-v »

saagarjha wrote: post #247
jillesvangurp wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how hard these things are getting to repair and how long it takes, I think you could argue that Apple should just offer to replace faulty devices with new ones. Having a pro device out of action for more than a week is just not acceptable. If it breaks, I want to have the replacement up and running ASAP. If Apple can then repair and refurbish the original at their own leisurely pace, fine. That will also put th…

Doesn’t Apple provide loaner devices during repairs?

No.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#277

Post by xuki »

saagarjha wrote: post #247
jillesvangurp wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how hard these things are getting to repair and how long it takes, I think you could argue that Apple should just offer to replace faulty devices with new ones. Having a pro device out of action for more than a week is just not acceptable. If it breaks, I want to have the replacement up and running ASAP. If Apple can then repair and refurbish the original at their own leisurely pace, fine. That will also put th…

Doesn’t Apple provide loaner devices during repairs?

No. But you can usually order a new one and return when the repair is finished.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#278

Post by bigbugbag »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #268
parrellel wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really does come down to status. Apple isn't really a computer company anymore, it sells "Luxury Goods" and gets the same sort of value boost you see in diamonds, Rolexes, and Armani suits. This isn't to say the components are trash, but if you removed the cachet of the brand, and the lock in afforded by OSX and iOS, you wouldn't see nearly the current stupidity.

How is it just status when Apple is the only vendor providing a device that just works with the least time spent fixing it or updating it or removing all the malware that came pre installed on it? My grandparents and uncles and aunts aren’t looking for status. They want to open their device, press FaceTime and see their grand kids. They don’t want to spend time fighting out which login to use on which service Google…

I deal with this grandparents videocall situation, none have an apple product but android tablets and linux computers and it's working as intended.

I also deal with how every macbook plugging the ethernet cable on my home network just crashes with the multilingual error message explaining that nothing can be done except turning off the macbook, no other device does this, apple device privilege I guess.

Do I have to mention the number of ipad and iphone and macbook that are brought to me because something wrong during update happened and now the devices won't boot ?

There are other vendor who do not pre install malware, and I would like to see fact supporting your claim that apple is the only one that...

To me apple is just another vendor with their own shortcomings and issues but also a more successful marketing which managed to give their devices a social status marker.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#279

Post by jen729w »

bigbugbag wrote: post #246
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most customers don't care, they don't care about repairability because modern devices are so reliable, they don't care about upgradeability because they bought the appropriate spec in the first place. Even if it does fail they don't really care about the cost of repair because they bought a premium product and their expectations are set accordingly.

Actually, people do care about repairability more than you think, just look at the growing popularity of repair cafes. To me the issue is that devices are made to appear obsolete, a marketing scheme to boost profit, in a limited time frame and replaced instead of repaired not because they are reliable (for example the lawsuit for prone to breaking keys on recent macbooka[1]). People who care about upgradeability are…

FWIW, I upgraded a 5+ year old MacBook Air to the new MacBook Pro basically because I wanted to. I think the screen was the main driver, but really there was nothing wrong with that Air; as evidenced by the fact that a good friend is now using it as her primary computer.

Planned obsolence is another meme that needs to die.

Regarding the cost of screens for a phone, what, you wish they were lower? Me too! But they aren’t, if you want an original Apple screen. They cost a bunch to source ($110) [0], they cost a bunch for Apple to train up techs, and to have the systems and procedures and checklists such that every time you get an Apple replacement, it’s like new.

Would everyone who dropped their phone wish for a $20 replacement? Of course. Tough luck.

I’m not suggesting that non-Apple repair is different, but you have to admit that a knock-off 3rd party screen is probably not going to be as reliable. And who wears the pain and anger when that screen doesn’t work? Apple.

You can’t fault them for wanting to control this stuff. If it was my company, I would.

[0]: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/iphone-x-teardown-parts-c...

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#280

Post by rofo1 »

ehrtt wrote: post #265
stevesimmons wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dell XPS laptops have user-upgradable RAM and SSDs.

The RAM is soldered on.

This is incorrect, at least on 9550 / 9560. It's extremely easy to upgrade both of them, just open the back without even fully disassembling the machine.
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