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Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

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Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#131

Post by colordrops »

alasdair_ wrote: post #126
fermienrico wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has invested billions into search and it is nearly impossible for a small startup to invade the search business. For example, imagine a company that allows you to search the internet without ads but charging say $2.99/month fee to use it. Even if I am willing to pay, the search accuracy and ability for a small company to compete with google is nearly impossible. So here we are. Perhaps I’ll switch to DuckDuckG…

>So here we are. Perhaps I’ll switch to DuckDuckGo. They recently got funding and I feel like they’re “cool” right now until if they grow huge and we are back to square one. DuckDuckGo's primary selling point is privacy. If they infringe on that, they die. Also, I just switched to an iPhone again after years of using Android, for similar reasons. Apple is scary but right now I want to distance myself from Google as m…

Google's primary selling point was being the anti-microsoft, i.e. Don't Be Evil.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#132

Post by ajmurmann »

dm8 wrote: post #123
fermienrico wrote: post #94

I’ve realized something over the years: Remember how “cool” Google was in 2007!? I vividly remember. I have learned an important fact that Ad business is rotten at the core - meaning it has direct conflicts with users. Therefore, I can never come to trust any Ads businesses: Facebook, Google, Snapchat, etc and recently Adobe and Microsoft. I’m disgusted at the state of advertisement in modern society. It ruined cable…

I work at an ad-tech startup, and I hear you. Ad-tech has lot of rotten apples. Advertising done right (aka unobtrusive, privacy conscious, and value additive) is a great for free information exchange. Bad ad is always bad, but ad may not always be bad. There are lot of people working on it (including my startup) to solve the problem that are fraught with ad-tech in general and we are making progress but there is lot…

How can an advertisement not be bad? Ultimately it's always the goal to get someone to buy something they otherwise wouldn't. Even if you catch someone when they are already are looking to buy a product from your category you are trying to get them to buy your product instead of the competitor's. What would be helpful to the user in that moment is a product comparison that's honest and unbiased and not an advertisement. The goals of the advertiser and the consumer are inherently at odds.

I'd be genuinely excited to learn otherwise.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#133

Post by colordrops »

fermienrico wrote: post #109
codezero wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to age myself I remember how cool Google was in 1999. The joy of actually finding what you wanted and not getting sucked into some ad sponsored portal. Now Google is the portal. I’m done with it.

Google has invested billions into search and it is nearly impossible for a small startup to invade the search business. For example, imagine a company that allows you to search the internet without ads but charging say $2.99/month fee to use it. Even if I am willing to pay, the search accuracy and ability for a small company to compete with google is nearly impossible. So here we are. Perhaps I’ll switch to DuckDuckG…

The endless corporate loop is natural. Everything in this universe is on an endless loop and nothing lasts forever. Just get used to change and use whatever is legit at the moment.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#135

Post by sriku »

ben174 wrote: post #9

I have no doubt this is a direct result of the feedback in the hacker news thread. Googlers read our comments and take them seriously when there is true merit. Keep making noise folks, it matters.

However I'm disappointed that their response is essentially lip service to the highlighted problem. If I read the article correctly, the auto-signin will continue to be the default and you'll get an option to turn it off. This does not address the breach of trust issues highlighted in the thread and linked posts .. unless they're going to ask you about signing in to the browser before doing it. Also, the consequences of saying "yes" to that would continue to be unclear if one path leads to data sync and another path doesn't.

Personally, browsers don't need users to signin. They can sync data laterally with other instances. I suppose Google hasn't heard of bonjour.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#136

Post by philliphaydon »

colordrops wrote: post #131
alasdair_ wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So here we are. Perhaps I’ll switch to DuckDuckGo. They recently got funding and I feel like they’re “cool” right now until if they grow huge and we are back to square one. DuckDuckGo's primary selling point is privacy. If they infringe on that, they die. Also, I just switched to an iPhone again after years of using Android, for similar reasons. Apple is scary but right now I want to distance myself from Google as m…

Google's primary selling point was being the anti-microsoft, i.e. Don't Be Evil.

And now the tables have turned.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#137

Post by snaky »

fermienrico wrote: post #109
codezero wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to age myself I remember how cool Google was in 1999. The joy of actually finding what you wanted and not getting sucked into some ad sponsored portal. Now Google is the portal. I’m done with it.

Google has invested billions into search and it is nearly impossible for a small startup to invade the search business. For example, imagine a company that allows you to search the internet without ads but charging say $2.99/month fee to use it. Even if I am willing to pay, the search accuracy and ability for a small company to compete with google is nearly impossible. So here we are. Perhaps I’ll switch to DuckDuckG…

Microsoft has invested billions into Internet Explorer and it is nearly impossible for a small startup to invade the browser business.

                IE      Firefox
  2009 Q4 	66.42% 	21.13%
  2003 Q2 	94.43% 	 2.22%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Th...

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#138

Post by colordrops »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #90
eudora wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on. The logical thing to do, if your real aim is to have browser sign in state reflect cookie state, is to sign out the browser when someone clears their cookies. That would make total sense to users. I think this is clear evidence that Google made this change to keep more users signed into Google so they can collect more of your data without telling you.

The article says that is exactly what they are going to do now: when you clear all cookies, you will be signed out.

What they are going to do. As currently released, it is a real issue, not some misunderstanding.

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#139

Post by wingerlang »

fermienrico wrote: post #128
dm8 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at an ad-tech startup, and I hear you. Ad-tech has lot of rotten apples. Advertising done right (aka unobtrusive, privacy conscious, and value additive) is a great for free information exchange. Bad ad is always bad, but ad may not always be bad. There are lot of people working on it (including my startup) to solve the problem that are fraught with ad-tech in general and we are making progress but there is lot…

I feel like Advertisement should be a “pull” rather than “push” model. I want to see different vendors when I decide to buy something. But when I’m on Instagram and browsing pictures, please don’t sell me a chef’s knife or a guitar. I have no experience in marketing and advertisement. But from a user standpoint, I want to look through Yellow Pages and Vendor catalogs. Not bombarded with ads all the time. What are you…

  I feel like Advertisement should be a “pull” rather than “push” model.
Isn't that the literal opposite of its definition?

Re: Product Updates Based on Your Feedback

#140

Post by roenxi »

ajmurmann wrote: post #132
dm8 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at an ad-tech startup, and I hear you. Ad-tech has lot of rotten apples. Advertising done right (aka unobtrusive, privacy conscious, and value additive) is a great for free information exchange. Bad ad is always bad, but ad may not always be bad. There are lot of people working on it (including my startup) to solve the problem that are fraught with ad-tech in general and we are making progress but there is lot…

How can an advertisement not be bad? Ultimately it's always the goal to get someone to buy something they otherwise wouldn't. Even if you catch someone when they are already are looking to buy a product from your category you are trying to get them to buy your product instead of the competitor's. What would be helpful to the user in that moment is a product comparison that's honest and unbiased and not an advertiseme…

A lot of advertising is either raising awareness that a product category exists at all, or comforting potential buyers that people won't laugh at them if they buy a thing and it turns out to be a bad idea.

Consider the iPhone advertising campaign back in '07, modern smartphones would have taken another decade to take hold if Apple hadn't done such a masterful job telling people that a new category was being born.

Sometimes people will advocate 'doing your own research'. That is at odds with the fact that most people are incapable (not just disinterested in, but incapable) of evaluating all the decisions they make daily basis. Research the decisions you understand, copy someone else for the rest is the best strategy.

In that environment, even a good product needs some exposure to raise awareness that it exists. The game is more complicated than advertisers hypnotising an otherwise unwilling public.

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