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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#571

Post by petre »

tlrobinson wrote: post #485
int_handler wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Yes, you can row your own gears with paddle shifters, but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. But yes, if there is a smoking gun for the death of the manual in America, it would be our crumbling, congested roads and absurdly long daily commutes.

Why is a stick and three pedals the optimal number of controls for “driver engagement”?

I drive both a manual and an older (mid 2000s, 5 gears) automatic CVT. The CVT always seems to get me annoyed as if shifts very conservatively. When going up a slope it feels like the engine is having a hard time. Or it's upshifting in the middle of an overtake at 70 kmh when the gearbox is not in 5th. Always makes me switch to manual in those situations. I've also driven a DSG which works great until you have to drive down a mountain road with tight curbs.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#573

Post by revjx »

yurishimo wrote: post #516
pjmlp wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European cars have cruise control on manuals.

They said "adaptive cruise control". That's where the car will speed up or slow down based on the traffic around you automatically. Sort of like self driving but not nearly as demanding. Obviously manuals have had normal cruise control for decades.

I live in the UK, manual cars have had adaptive cruise control here for some time.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#574

Post by J-dawg »

LeonM wrote: post #568

In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from driving manual cars). Automatic transmiss…

In the UK you don't need a medical reason, you can simply choose to take an automatic test. But then of course you can only drive automatic cars, just like in the Netherlands.

Ironically I believe an American who has never driven a manual would be able to come here and rent one, because (please correct me if I'm wrong) their licences don't distinguish between the two.

I think manuals are slowly on the way out here as well, although they'll persist for a long time on cheaper cars, and a few sportier cars.

A friend's new (automatic) Audi has both faster 0-60 and higher MPG (and lower CO2 output) than the manual equivalent, so manual gearboxes are becoming more difficult to justify, even for petrolheads.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#575

Post by dagw »

rootusrootus wrote: post #183
taeric wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I confess I gained a ton of respect for Klik & Klack was when they gave the advice to not teach kids on a stick shift. This is akin to teaching a kid to ride a 21 speed bike. They can probably get up to that rather quickly, all told, but just learning the basics of balance and pedaling will already be difficult enough. Similarly, just learning the basics of the car will already be tough. Why add to it? Why not take a…

I'm not sure it's really that big a deal. My dad taught me to drive by going out to a lonely national park with a lot of parking lots and letting me figure it out. On an automatic, yes. 20 minutes later he said, okay, good, now drive us home. And I did. Driving isn't that magic. So I will probably teach my kids how to drive our pickup first, and then for laughs we will take my 455 horsepower Camaro out to learn how a…

Driving isn't that magic.

Driving is easy. Interacting safely with the other people on the road is what is hard.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#576

Post by [deleted] »

LeonM wrote: post #568

In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from driving manual cars). Automatic transmiss…

[deleted]

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#577

Post by closeparen »

Theodores wrote: post #567
thinkmassive wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Acceleration is a lot more fun than velocity for most people. You can experience high acceleration (in all directions) at low speeds in a good nimble sports car, and stay completely within the spirit of the law.

People want that acceleration in something that is not a 'good nimble sports car', so a Porsche SUV is nearer the mark, or, a generation ago, a hot hatch. There is a rough measure of power going on with these status symbols. Everyone would be driving Ariel Atoms and Caterham Lotus 7 cars or Mazda Miatas if 'good nimble sports car' really satisfied what was allegedly wanted. So the 'what do you want, what are you tryi…

Curious how it's so deeply important to the core of people's identities to loudly and proudly assert that others are enjoying things for the wrong reasons.

I may as well claim that because bicyclists are always wearing spandex and carrying helmets around, there must be more to it than the alleged enjoyment of cycling - they don't actually like riding bikes, but only want hipster-fitness lifestyle points.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#578

Post by tomohawk »

_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #564
mseidl wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been proven that one person over braking when there was no need can cause a traffic jam for hours.

But it hasn't been proven that this happens more with automatic transmissions.

But it is pretty obvious. In an automatic, you pretty much have to touch the brakes to slow down. In a manual, you have other options. Taking your foot off the gas in a manual tends to slow the car quite a bit more than in an automatic, for example.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#579

Post by Fifer82 »

J-dawg wrote: post #574
LeonM wrote: post #568

In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from driving manual cars). Automatic transmiss…

In the UK you don't need a medical reason, you can simply choose to take an automatic test. But then of course you can only drive automatic cars, just like in the Netherlands. Ironically I believe an American who has never driven a manual would be able to come here and rent one, because (please correct me if I'm wrong) their licences don't distinguish between the two. I think manuals are slowly on the way out here as…

What if I have an Automatic Driving Licence (UK) and I go to America and rent a Stick Shift then the Police pull me over?

Also could I go to a developing country, get a licence there, then it is valid in the UK and America?

These questions came to mind when I read your comment.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#580

Post by J-dawg »

Fifer82 wrote: post #579
J-dawg wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK you don't need a medical reason, you can simply choose to take an automatic test. But then of course you can only drive automatic cars, just like in the Netherlands. Ironically I believe an American who has never driven a manual would be able to come here and rent one, because (please correct me if I'm wrong) their licences don't distinguish between the two. I think manuals are slowly on the way out here as…

What if I have an Automatic Driving Licence (UK) and I go to America and rent a Stick Shift then the Police pull me over? Also could I go to a developing country, get a licence there, then it is valid in the UK and America? These questions came to mind when I read your comment.

These are interesting questions! I don't know the answers, but I guess international law is often bad at dealing with edge cases.
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