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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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511–520 of 729 posts

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#511
I've gotten a Nissan Leaf v.2 which comes with e-pedal. Essentially single pedal driving. Best described as someone who drove stick shift as staying in second gear but without none of the noise. Push the pedal down and it accelerates normally, but start lifting off and it goes from "neutral" to "engine braking" (regenerative) all the way to a complete stop. https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/e_Pedal...

While I do miss doing 3 -> 2 heel toe downshift for corners, trying to figure out when to lift off to scrub enough speed without touching the brakes for a corner is just as entertaining.

I think shifting gears in general, whether automatics or manual, will fade out as electric drive-trains take over.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#513
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never had a huge issue with driving in stop-go traffic with a manual. It really depends on the type of car you're driving though, I guess. Driving a sports car with a grippy clutch is going to be painful. Driving a $750, 20 year old Mazda with a 2 L engine and a soft clutch isn't too bad at all, you just sort of ride the clutch (which I am aware isn't great for it). I think that there is nothing that beats drivi…

It isn’t that manual is bad at stop and go traffic. It is that adaptive cruise control is really great at it, and adaptive cruise control is only available on automatics.

European cars have cruise control on manuals.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading…

> I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. A simple hypothesis like this is easy to test: does stop and go traffic exist in places that are predominantly manual transmissions? I live in Asia and I can tell you unequivocally that, yes, stop and go traffic still exists even when every single person has a manual transmission.

Yeah, that is a transparently silly argument GP made. It's just that weird self-righteousness people get about driving manual. They're sooo much more in tune with their cars, you know.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#515

Except the article doesn't answer it at all. Why did America lose its love... when other countries (e.g. rich European countries) continue to buy majority stick? All of the reasons given for the US presumably apply to e.g. Germany too, no? Except no transformation there...

The biggest disadvantage autos still have versus manuals is their larger size and higher parasitic power loss. Americans tend to drive both larger and more powerful cars where the drawbacks of the auto over the manual are pretty much insignificant. Smaller European cars with lower power figures have more difficulty physically fitting the automatic transmission and the power loss from the torque converter is more noti…

I'm a car noob, but how is physically fitting automation into a device difficult? Isn't it a tiny chip on a board?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#516
post #513
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn’t that manual is bad at stop and go traffic. It is that adaptive cruise control is really great at it, and adaptive cruise control is only available on automatics.

European cars have cruise control on manuals.

They said "adaptive cruise control". That's where the car will speed up or slow down based on the traffic around you automatically. Sort of like self driving but not nearly as demanding.

Obviously manuals have had normal cruise control for decades.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#517

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading…

> just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading braking

Same thing with an automatic transmission. With DSG it's obvious why, but even with a torque converter you tend to have a clutch that locks up once there's no need for slip to improve efficiency.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you live that you can stay in 2nd and crawl. Where I live, the moment you leave a few inches between your front bumper and the car in front of you, someone is guaranteed to cut you off and force you to brake to prevent hitting them. When I say "inches", I mean inches - 6-8 inches of space is enough for someone to think "I'll just squeeze in here".

Do you never merge or change lanes in heavy traffic? Because if you’ve ever done any of those things, you rely on people leaving space and letting you in. Why deny others the same opportunities? Driving in traffic is a cooperative activity. The only times you don’t need to accommodate and be accommodated by other drivers are when there are hardly any around.

I have a casual theory that driving in the US relies upon every individual enforcing their own idea of what the rules should be, inherent to our culture. I really enjoy driving in Europe, but maybe it's delusional. There's an aggressive indifference that I perceive.

We should mostly be on bikes and scooters anyway.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading…

> I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. A simple hypothesis like this is easy to test: does stop and go traffic exist in places that are predominantly manual transmissions? I live in Asia and I can tell you unequivocally that, yes, stop and go traffic still exists even when every single person has a manual transmission.

Italy has the same stop/go issue. Roundabouts are the main cause, with jammed zip merges coming in second. Both allow only a short burst of cars to pass when at full capacity, which backpropagates into the queue as multiple stop and go.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#520
My biggest gripe with most automatic transmissions is a feature commonly referred to as creep. Let off the brake pedal and the car moves forward. Depending on the car it’s more pronounced. Rarely do you have an automatic that will actually remain at a constant speed or slightly slow down when you lift off the gas.

This is a huge issue and I’ll contend it’s a major contributor to traffic in urban environments. In a manual vehicle or a DSG/DCT vehicle (read: something that has a clutch or clutches and avoids a torque converter like common automatics) you can let off the gas pedal and your vehicle isn’t going to continue to accelerate. Combine that with the ability and knowledge that downshifting is going to force the engine to behave like a brake and you have much more precise control over your speed.

I rarely use my brakes. I own a 6-speed Mustang and my wife has a 6-speed STI. I drive very fluid, estimating (or doing my best to) the perfect avg speed during traffic so I can roll along and smooth out disruptions in my lane. Meanwhile the vast majority of other drivers are constantly battling their vehicles natural tendency to move by tapping on the brake pedal like a moth banging on an outdoor light.

Brake lights cause other people to brake. Even if there is no logical reason to do so, people will respond and then a chain reaction of unnecessary braking is happening all the way down the highway. It’s not the only cause of traffic but it’s a significant variable in an algebraic shitstorm of other issues.

I’m also pretty convinced that having extensive experience with a manual vehicle makes you a better driver. For instance a lot of folks have no clue what the 1/2/3 or +/- buttons do on their auto transmissions. They aren’t aware of engine braking down a steep grade. They’re able to cruise along (thanks to creep) in traffic with their foot never coming off the brake pedal and their attention primarily on a phone. It kills me to see this.

Anecdotally the best drivers I know drive or have driven manual cars. The worst drivers I know don’t share this experience.

It’s tragic they are going away. The irony here is that worldwide America is one of the few places where it’s still appreciated. A lot of high end European auto makers have ditched manual entirely abroad yet still offer it as an option here (on certain models).

I realize automatics are becoming more efficient and have definitely surpassed manuals as far as shifting speed but I still love my stick shift. I wish more people could appreciate it. Unfortunately they’re so rare now and carry such an elitist stigma that a lot of people will never even have the opportunity to row the gears and truly drive a fun car.

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