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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#561

Post by antnisp »

city41 wrote: post #310
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

My wife and I both have manuals and we sit in stop and go traffic every day. Having to shift in traffic doesn't even register with my brain that it's really anything at all. I simply don't notice.

You will when you have to have your disks changed.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#562

Post by Krasnol »

King-Aaron wrote: post #545
Someone1234 wrote: post #48

There's little argument for manual transmission anymore except in larger vehicles. There used to be an efficiency gap, in that a good manual driver was more efficient than an automatic. But two things have happened since then, we have computer controlled transmissions and CVTs. Manual drivers were more efficient because they learned when the vehicle would need to shift, and shifted preemptively. A computer controlled…

> There's little argument for manual transmission anymore except in larger vehicles. Why has "having fun" disappeared from people's list of requirements in a vehicle? CVT's are boring to drive. Extremely boring .

Probably it's just the people writing here. The hip generation that doesn't even need/have a car. The uber callers where some low wage person does the driving for you. Those who consider it some "man hobby from the last century".

It's funny how reasonable arguments drown with it too. This is the moment where you hear that American visitor in Europe abusing a rental car or not even getting one because he/she has no license for stick shift.

The up side is: with every year the theft protection aspects becomes more relevant ;)

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#563

Post by tibbon »

stouset wrote: post #358
city41 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I both have manuals and we sit in stop and go traffic every day. Having to shift in traffic doesn't even register with my brain that it's really anything at all. I simply don't notice.

Yeah, I don't at all understand this mentality that stick shift is a burden in stop and go traffic. I've since switched to a motorcycle, but when I used to drive stick I can't say I ever really noticed or paid attention to the fact that I was having to shift, even in stop and go traffic. After you've gotten comfortable with shifting it just fades completely into the background.

Same. Started driving a manual when I was 15. Been daily driving a motorcycle for commuting the past 8 years (not one of those weird automatic ones that Honda makes now either). I never have once wished for an automatic motorcycle. I commute in Boston traffic, and have also done so in NYC, with significant travel through Chicago, SF, San Diego, LA, DC, etc

I really don't get what the issue is. Maybe my ADHD benefits focus-wise from having another thing to do? I rarely even use the cruise control unless I'm on a 3+ hour trip.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#564

Post by _fizz_buzz_ »

mseidl wrote: post #559
freddie_mercury wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. A simple hypothesis like this is easy to test: does stop and go traffic exist in places that are predominantly manual transmissions? I live in Asia and I can tell you unequivocally that, yes, stop and go traffic still exists even when every single person has a manual transmission.

It has been proven that one person over braking when there was no need can cause a traffic jam for hours.

But it hasn't been proven that this happens more with automatic transmissions.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#565

Post by coldtea »

entee wrote: post #412
t0mbstone wrote: post #163

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time…

At this point performance cars are no longer truly exploitable on a road legally. Yeah you can do a quick acceleration at the occasional stoplight, but on pretty much no public road are you going to get to a speed that's close to the car's limit. And if you do, it'll be insanely dangerous because even though safety systems are amazing these days, your reaction time isn't any faster than it used to be and the people a…

>At this point performance cars are no longer truly exploitable on a road legally. Yeah you can do a quick acceleration at the occasional stoplight, but on pretty much no public road are you going to get to a speed that's close to the car's limit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn

(Besides, it's not like most use them "legally" all the time)

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#566

Post by kaitai »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #380
int_handler wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Yes, you can row your own gears with paddle shifters, but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. But yes, if there is a smoking gun for the death of the manual in America, it would be our crumbling, congested roads and absurdly long daily commutes.

> Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It was about efficiency and cost for ages though. That's why manuals were popular and why they aren't popular in the US anymore. Modern automatics (dual clutch, CVTs, even computer controlled single clutch and plain old torque converter slushboxes) are so much more efficient now that manuals don't make as much sense as they used to.

Agree, simply in that by changing my driving style I could get 30+ miles per gallon of gas using a manual but not an automatic of the same type of car. It's interesting that people don't even know that anymore. Additionally, manual can be very useful in a snowy/icy climate -- starting into 2nd can get you going on a slippery road where some automatics will have trouble. Much more control of torque.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#567

Post by Theodores »

thinkmassive wrote: post #465
entee wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point performance cars are no longer truly exploitable on a road legally. Yeah you can do a quick acceleration at the occasional stoplight, but on pretty much no public road are you going to get to a speed that's close to the car's limit. And if you do, it'll be insanely dangerous because even though safety systems are amazing these days, your reaction time isn't any faster than it used to be and the people a…

Acceleration is a lot more fun than velocity for most people. You can experience high acceleration (in all directions) at low speeds in a good nimble sports car, and stay completely within the spirit of the law.

People want that acceleration in something that is not a 'good nimble sports car', so a Porsche SUV is nearer the mark, or, a generation ago, a hot hatch.

There is a rough measure of power going on with these status symbols. Everyone would be driving Ariel Atoms and Caterham Lotus 7 cars or Mazda Miatas if 'good nimble sports car' really satisfied what was allegedly wanted.

So the 'what do you want, what are you trying to achieve' aspect of owning that fancy car that can do silly speeds has to have more to it than that thrill of acceleration. It is about where you see yourself in the world - status.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#568

Post by LeonM »

In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from driving manual cars).

Automatic transmissions are therefore regarded as either boring, or for people who do not have the skills to drive a manual.

I drive a car with an automatic transmission and people always ask me why I'd drive a 'boring' car. Then I explain it is actually 'sporty' because it has paddle shifters (which I never use), and suddenly it becomes acceptable again.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#569

Post by Scea91 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #48

There's little argument for manual transmission anymore except in larger vehicles. There used to be an efficiency gap, in that a good manual driver was more efficient than an automatic. But two things have happened since then, we have computer controlled transmissions and CVTs. Manual drivers were more efficient because they learned when the vehicle would need to shift, and shifted preemptively. A computer controlled…

I am not sure how in US but here in Czechia manual cars are considerably cheaper than automatic cars. I think many people drive manual for economic reasons.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#570

Post by closeparen »

GalacticDomin8r wrote: post #524
closeparen wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you never merge or change lanes in heavy traffic? Because if you’ve ever done any of those things, you rely on people leaving space and letting you in. Why deny others the same opportunities? Driving in traffic is a cooperative activity. The only times you don’t need to accommodate and be accommodated by other drivers are when there are hardly any around.

> Why deny others the same opportunities? Almost exclusively these people will zip around a line and force their way in at the end. Even kindergartners are taught budging in line is not good. Why is this the problem on the people actually being considerate and are in the correct lane at the appropriate time?

No one was born in the correct lane at the beginning of time. They inserted themselves there at some point. In traffic, the only way they could have done so is to move in front of another driver.

Zipper merging [0] exercises a different kindergarten skill, taking turns. Still, "lines" are a small minority of lane-changing situations, all of which involve taking the open space in an adjacent lane.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merge_(traffic)

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